A question on discipline and children?

As some of you might of guessed I am a little older, but as a retired chef (who on occasion does some consulting) I enjoy coming to this website. My question is about children and discipline. Recently one of my daughters came for a visit with her two children. I lover my daughter and my grandchildren, but it seems today that parents don't spank their children anymore. My grandkids are 2 and 4 years in age, and they are little monsters. I told my daughter that it is ok to spank the children just to teach them, but she says she doesn't believe in hitting them. Instead she talks to them and tries to reason with them. Now I ask you, how do you reason with a 2 or 4 year old? I don't believe in beating up your kid, but I think spanking is ok if it is done correctly and without anger. In my day, children were spanked when they are bad, but now it seems like you can go to prison if you even think about touching your kid. This is crazy to me, what are others thoughts?

[BevReview Steve]

Excellent topic, Robert45. My girlfriend in a social worker and deals with this quite often. We both believe in corporate punishment, such as spanking, but I think the important thing to remember is to give the child a warning of the outcomes first. Say that if they don't do XXX, they will be spanked. Then I feel it's ok to go through with it.

Now, if you were a foster parent, that wouldn't work and the state would probably really get on your case for "abuse" and all that stuff. However, there comes a point when reasoning works, but also the use of the hand!

[chefjohnpaul]

If a spanking is what is needed then a spanking is what should be administered. The Bible book of Proverbs talks about the 'rod of discipline' removing foolish behavior from children, the 'rod' can take on many forms as the word discipline (root of disciple) means to teach, if a beating is carried out in a fit of anger the child is taught nothing except the loss of control, if a spanking is given with the reasons given for it and administered in a loving, controled manner then a valuable lesson is learned. If a child is taught to love and respect the parent then when discipline is administered the child will take it seriously because they have disappointed someone they love and respect. God gave the powers of procreation and also the responsibility to train those produced by the process!

[Live_to_cook]

As the father of a wonderful, rambunctious nearly-4 girl, it has been my experience that when words have been exhausted and she still persists in dangerous behavior (i.e. dashing into the street) a swat on the behind, to get her attention, is a sort of mercy.

Never ever swat in anger, that's the rule I try to live by. How did my parents ever manage five? I think I have to go call my mother now.

[m brown]

Robert45,
This is a tough subject and with three little boys discipline is like breathing. I often take the boys out to the store and on errands. Even out in public I have no quams letting them know how to behave. I have had to drag one of them out of a situations several times due to behavior and have saught help in coping with problems.
Speaking with a child is one thing but trying to reason with them before the age of 6 is akin to crazy. They have to know who is the parent, it is not a matter of "honey please don't pull the kittys tail, she doesn't like it, it makes her feel bad" it is a matter of "we do not pull the cats tail, period!". Spanking is okay if they are harming themselves or others. Spanking is not an option just for being rowdie. Time outs and denial of treats gets a child where they live and setting boundries is a COMFORT to them. Love them and when they visit, let them know it is your house and how they must behaive in order to be asked back.
When visiting I have no problem with the host letting the children know what is and is not permitted.
All around me I see people letting their children get away with way too much and it's sad because the children don't have a protector. A parents roll is not friend but parent.

sorry about the soap box.

m.

[Pete]

As someone who hopes to have childern in the near future I am really enjoying this thread and would have to say that I agree with all of you in that spanking can be a good thing, if done properly. I was spanked as a child, even made to go out and cut my own switch from the apple tree a few times as an older child. Do I feel that my parents abused me? NO!!!!! My parents loved me deeply and did what they needed to to mold me into who I am today and to keep me from harm. I was a very difficult child for many years and the only thing I really understood corporal punishment. I do believe in "time outs" etc. but sometimes a good spanking is all a kid understands. Parents do more damage letting their kids get away with things than by spanking them.

[Mezzaluna]

Wow. Interesting thread! I agree with those of you who say you can't negotiate with little ones! They quickly understand who's in charge, and it ain't the parent. The negotiations turn into whining in no time- both the parent and the child whining at each other! I've seen this numerous time in public (how many diners' meals have been ruined with this sort of lunacy?). I am a great believer in time outs, keeping one's voice low and even, and keeping the swats to a minimum (I was MORE than spanked as a kid, and am leery of advocating corporal punishment).

[Nicko]

Wow talk about a hot potato of a topic. This is something that I have beat my head against the wall with friends about. When I was growing up if we were out of line, then we were smacked and that was all there was to it. My parents were not excessive, they just gave us a spanking when we were out of line. What I think made the difference was exactly what Live_to_cook said, they really loved me and it showed even when they were administering discipline.

Don't really know though what I think about the time out stuff. I have only seen one couple that makes that work. Other thoughts?

my parents would just smash me into the drywall and stuff; that seemed to get the point across

[PJ]

Originally posted by Nicko:
Wow talk about a hot potato of a topic. This is something that I have beat my head against the wall with friends about. When I was growing up if we were out of line, then we were smacked and that was all there was to it. My parents were not excessive, they just gave us a spanking when we were out of line. What I think made the difference was exactly what Live_to_cook said, they really loved me and it showed even when they were administering discipline.

Don't really know though what I think about the time out stuff. I have only seen one couple that makes that work. Other thoughts?

I vote for spanking of children if the situation warrants it. How many times have you been in a restaurant for example, and have seen children out of control, screaming and running around and the parents just sitting there saying "Oh well". Or try shopping in a supermarket with kids running wild up and down the isles, it is not only dangerous for them, but dangerous for other people. I saw a kid running down this one isle of the grocery store knocking over a whole stand of fruit jelly. Talk about a mess. Gooey jelly went flying over everything, and not to mention the glass that broke from all those jars hitting the floor. What did the parent do? Nothing! Just looked at the mess and kept on walking. It sends the wrong message to children. Not only are children showing bad behavior, but it is telling the world that these parents don't have the situation under control. I am for discipline. But in the right manner. Take your child outside if necessary and discipline that child there. Or, if spanking is necessary, also take the child to the restroom, or outside and deal with it quitely. People will have more respect for you as a parent, and the child will know his boundaries. Do all this with love, and the child will be under control. Sometimes a child will test your indurance, and they really might not want to misbehave. They look to the parent for guidance. It is the parents responsibility to show want is acceptable behavior and want is not. Children can become confused. A gentle hand, but firm hand where children are concerned works best. If children are allowed to be wild, and disrespectful that is what they will be. They need to be taught good behavior and well as anything else in life that is important. And PS, I was spanked as a child, and when that was necessary I was ashamed of myself for causing the ones I loved the most to be disappointed in me. I would shape up fast!.

This new idea of not spanking children is absured. The parent is the role model. It should be them that corrects a child as they see fit. Not brutality, but discipline that will teach the child best. If a child knows he never will be corrected, then what does he fear? It is a loaded question like you said, but one that needs to be dealt with.



[This message has been edited by PJ (edited September 01, 2000).]

[Nicko]

PJ I agree with you 100%, but why are parents not allowed to hit their kids in public anymore? I worked with a waitress who told me she was in McDonalds and when her 3 year old son was acting up she took him in the bathroom to spank him. She wasn't be harsh, just discipling the child. A woman in the bathroom told her to stop hitting her child, and that she has no right to hit a small child. When I was a kid my mom caried a wooden spoon in her purse. If we acted up in the store, she took it out and didn't hesitate to use it. Now it looks like you go to prison if you do anything like that?

[Cremaster]

Uuhhh......ok.......I'll be the first.

Why are we talking about these moral and ethical issues here? It seems that if you want to talk about this VERY personal issue you should be logging on to www.disciplineandchildren.com. This IS a food site, right? If this thread were to reference children's behavior in a restaurant/kitchen.....then ok. But it's not.

[UniChef]

Make 'em peel a 50 lb. sack of garlic!

[UniChef]

Why are we talking about these moral and ethical issues here? It seems that if you want to talk about this VERY personal issue you should be logging on to www.disciplineandchildren.com

O.K., I'm a sucker- I actually clicked on that link!