[Greg]

ChefKath posted regarding Ruhlman's stance that cooking is a craft, not an art (but without explaining his opinion). What does everybody think?

From looking at a dictionary, I'd say either/or and trying to differentiate is just splitting hairs. But, most people have a perception of there being a difference. Namely, that a craft is a blue-collar workman-like thing and an art is more aesthetic. Based on that, I'd have to say that what we do is a combination of the two. There's nothing aesthetic in changing fryer oil, but I don't there's anything blue-collar in coming up with an eye-pleasing presentation.

[layjo]

I think they are a combination of the two also. It is a craft from the first day you start learning and continues to be a craft throughout your career, because you always find yourself refering back to to classic preparations and fundamental methods. Once you've become accustomed to different aspects and procedures of the trade, the artistic/expressive mode of thinking comes into play. You know what "tools" you have to work with. Later these "tools" can become like "paint colors on an artist's palet"(yours, or mine). And you (or I)just have to create great or good food for the "people waiting in the gallery"....just a little bit of metaphores and what I have grown to belive.

[chefjohnpaul]

O, it's definately both. Webster defines art as human skill applied to any number of things. Let's face it, cooking comes from the heart in its finest form, it goes beyond here's a plate of food, its a passion, it can involve symetry, color,and motion in its presentation, and people go out to be entertained by food as much as by music. Dishes are often referred to as compositions. A craft? Yes. An art? Most definately. It's two taste treats in one!!!!

I was thinking about starting a thread on this subject since I am really curious about what others think. I'm glad to know that I am not the only one who believes cooking IS an art. I think it's true that people think of "craft" as a blue collar thing and "art" as something loftier. True, much of what we do every day is neither craft nor art. Cleaning out the grease trap and straining the fryer is just plain old shitwork. But the food we dream up, cook, plate and serve can be art, and in doing so we are both craftsmen/women AND artists. Does this make sense?

What I mean is that I ABSOLUTELY agree that cooking is both. My beef with Ruhlman is his insistance that it is only a craft. He makes fun of cooks who claim to be"artistes."

I do agree, however, that it is hard to articulate the distinction. Cooking is a craft in the sense that it is a learned skill at which one can excel, and that some achieve a higher level of this skill than others. In this way painting, photography, sculpture, etc. are all "crafts".

But no one argues that painting, photography, sculpture etc. are NOT "ART". There is a level at which these crafts become something more than simply going through learned motions and applying theory. The passion, creativity, inventiveness and emotion with which they are produced go far beyond skill. This is where they become art. In the same way, cooking at a certain level is art as well.

Kathleen

[Greg]

I'm just glad we aren't expected to be artists. I'd have to wear black all the time and be moody!

[Katherine]

First and foremost you must perfect your craft, otherwise you can never be recognized for your aspirations to higher artistic achievements.

[shroomgirl]

Depends on the person....I create new dishes all the time....and do consider myself an artist....no black clothing I prefer purple.It's also nice to get $ from Art Groups for food events.
Craftsmen...sure there are those guys out there to....

Passion or "It's just a job man" or even I care about what I'm doing but I don't make it up. It's great when you get paid for doing what you love.

[Katherine]

It looks to me like we're discussing semantics here--the definitions of the words art and craft. For people who feel that for something to be a true work of art, it must be useless, cooking can no more be an art than, say, embroidery. (Unless, of course, the article which is embroidered has no possible use but to hang on the wall and be admired?)
I couldn't disagree more. It seems to me it takes a great deal more creativity to incorporate art into everyday items, which can improve our enjoyment of daily activities.

What I would be inclined to say to anyone who asked that question is that they need to think about it for themselves. I personally feel that cooking is a craft. While I would be inclined to agree that some aspects of the culinary world could be considered an art, ie...wedding cakes, the majority of what I do in a kitchen, and what I aspire to do would be a craft in my mind. More importantly however, cooking is a lot of things to a lot of different people, so if you want to, go ahead, consider it an art, but if you cook for a decent chef though, don't tell him. Artists aren't reliable enough for the business from what i've seen and been told, Artists need to be inspired and their chefs food up their rectum is all the inspiration they would get, craftsmen know what needs to be done, and then they go do it.

[Greg]

My opinion on art v. craft based on definitions and perceptions I gave in my first post. Here's mine: we're neither. We're cooks, plain and simple. I can romanticize what I do and call myself an artist, or I could take the "I do honest work with my hands" stance and call myself a craftsmen. Either way, I'm over-analyzing. I'm a cook (not a chef;that's just a job title), and art ,craft,hobby or whatever we could try to categorize it as, it's what I do because events, abilities have led me to do it. The fact that I enjoy it is a bonus.

[cookM]

Originally posted by Greg:
I'm just glad we aren't expected to be artists. I'd have to wear black all the time and be moody!

I agree. It would get pretty weary to have to wear a beret, smoke Dunhill cigarettes, and read Jean-Paul Sarte!

[Pete]

I think some of what we do is artistic, but I hate when chefs refer to themselves as artists. Sure we can do amazing and interesting things with food, but after all it is still food. People have been cooking it for thousands of years. I think there is a danger in calling ourselves artists. When we do that then we take what we do way to seriously. I like the term craftsman. It implies skill and a sense of artistry, but not the loftiness or
egocentric qualities often implied by being an artist.

Glassblowers and pottery makers are considered craftsmen. Cabinet makers are craftsmen. Chefs are craftsmen. The is no shame in that title. The difference between us and artists is the fact that we are called upon to not only create something but to recreate it again and again.

[This message has been edited by Pete (edited September 17, 2000).]

[chefjohnpaul]

Boy,we can go round and round on this one. I think of an art apart from the term "artiste"
When I look at an eagle or mountain, I think God is an artist. When I see a stone mason laying an intricate archway, I think artist. When I see a plate that has asthetic appeal, as well as being prepared like someone knows what they are doing, I think artist. When I go to the SF meuseum of modern art and see molten lead splattered all over a room with stuffed poodles stuck in it I think "artiste" or the English translation, useless pretense. I think true craftmanship is an art, it takes vision, understanding, skill, foresight, and practical application. One has to be able to think in the abstract, unless you are just bound to executing a printed recipe there is art involved.

[shroomgirl]

Here-here! Well put Chefjohnpaul.

THANK YOU Chefjohnpaul! I've been trying to figure out how to articulate the relationship between art and craft. As someone said, we think of glassblowers and potters as "craftsmen", but I would expand on that thought and say that though this may be true, we consider their PRODUCT to be "art". As you say, true craftsmanship IS an art, as in these cases.

Of course the fact remains that the definition of "art" is, by nature, entirely subjective. Just as people disagree on whether paint splattered randomly on canvas is art, so do people disagree on whether certain foods or presentations styles are art. My question is, is the debate really about what is "art", or is it about what is "GOOD art"?

Kathleen