[Mezzaluna]

I see this thread spiraling around good parenting as a preventative to this awful outcome. As a 26-year educator, I couldn't agree more. Here's a little story (all names changed, of course): One day a couple of years ago, I observed John on the playground, kicking the daylights out of Joe's leg. John was grinning, ear to ear. I intervened, isolated the two, then walked John to the office. He was disciplined by the A.P., but I also imposed a lunch detention on him (isolated, with teacher supervision during lunch), and had to call his mom to let her know what he'd done. As I told her, she sighed loudly and said, "Not again!" I thought she was tired of hearing about her kid being in trouble, but I wasn't even close. Instead, she said, "Can't you people just let him be a kid?"

That's an example of the kind of parenting I've seen from parents of kids who get in trouble. They make excuses for their kids' acts of violence, harassment and disruption in school- as well as academic underperformance. 9/10ths of the kids are normal, pleasant kids who would do just fine if this sort of c*** could be stopped. Instead, teachers have to spend 9/10ths of the time they spend disciplning on kids whose parents will ream you out for doing what any responsible parent ought to be doing.

Sorry I vented so long on a periferral issue, but this seems to be a thread and a time for venting!

[ March 06, 2001: Message edited by: Mezzaluna ]

[SeattleDeb]

Mezz..how frustrating! That woman sounds like she falls under the "let the government/school/anyone else but me" school of parenting. Doesn't it also come down to personal responsibility or lack thereof these days?

Mezz:

I went to the same school for 12 yrs. I was probably the only boy who never got paddled at school. The reason? I behaved. Why? Because my Father went to every Parent/Teacher conference and told my teachers that they had his permission to do whatever they saw fit to do. Furthermore, he told them that if I acted up, they merely had to call him and I would get 10 times worse at home. And he meant it.

In addition, the teachers were able to discipline all the kids in a way that now they would be sued. Can't touch the little angels, don't you know.

I remember very well an incident in 11th grade Chemistry. Mr. Jonakin, our teacher, was a very large man (I am guessing about 6'4" and about 300 lbs.), but ususally very soft-spoken and gentle. However, one day some young punk on his way back to his seat from doing something at the board smart-mouthed Mr. Jonakin. Unfortunately for the kid, his head was between Jonakin and the board with the side of his head parallel to the board. Now, you have to understand that the blackboard was one of those real slate boards. Jonakin merely open-handely bounced the kid's head sharply upside the board...Thwack! The kid reeled a bit and took his seat. No one said a word. The kid (nor anyone else) ever smart-mouthed Jonakin again.

On another occasion (again in 11th grade), Jake, one of the jocks, had a water pistol in our 3rd year Latin class which was taught by a little old maid school teacher we referred to as Caesar's Grandmother(little wire-rimmed glasses and hair in a tight, tight bun). Jake waa surreptiously squirting various classmates every so often. Well, Caesar's Granny caught the act, snatched the water pistol from his grasp, and proceeded to empty it into his face as fast as she could. Water pistol was never seen again in that class and, again, nobody said a word (stunned silence). (Much laughter later outside of class).

We had several coaches that also taught classes. No one ever screwed with those guys. One of the coaches had been a combat infantry captain in WWII. You also didn't mess with Lawrence Cooney, "The Wild Irishman", who was the band instructor. God only knows what he was capable of and nobody dared to find out.

The entire faculty was competent and fair, but tough.

[Papa]

Dear Friends:

Lets not miss the point.

We live in a violent culture that fosters violence. Look at the box office hits. Which movies are the most popular? Look at the electronic games sales figures. Which games are the most popular? Violence has become the biggest part of our entertainment. We enjoy watching it and we pay billions every year to satisfy this craving. Is there something wrong with this? You bet there is!

To say that taking guns away will solve the problem is at least funny. We need laws and regulations about responsible gun ownership. I got my first hunting license in Greece, my second in France and my third in California. In both European countries I had to pass several tests and I had to get a paper from the Justice Department that I did not have any criminal record. In France, the study book to pass the ttest was 500 pages. In Greece I had to pass both a written and an oral test. In both countries I was able to purchase a gun ONLY after I had obtained my license. In California I was asked by the gun store clerk to show him my DRIVER'S LICENSE!!!! I was able to buy a gun by just showing that I was licensed to DRIVE!!! What does that have to do with owning a gun responsibly, I have no idea! We need more gun regulation but the problem does not end there. The way our culture is developing, people will find other means to harm others.

Let's promote "Slow Food", "True Food", "American Poetry Month" etc... and let's teach our children that violence is not enbtertainment.

I feel better now!

[theloggg]

Another shooting today. Penn. highschool, female student. Last I read one person shot, not a fatality.

Just makes my point in an earlier post about the tabloid media coverage causing copycats!

[theloggg]

Crudeau...I don't think the media is to blame here. We could be considered the media because we discuss this on a public webpage, you think? I can't believe because someone sees something on tv, they go and do the same. These kids have problems with or without watching tv. It could stem from Dad hitting Mom, kid sees the way to get even with someone you don't like is to attack them. It is my opinion that this kind of thing is going to continue to happen because of a combination of many things (bad parenting, weapon availability, video games, violent music/movies, etc) and until all these things change, our kids will not.

Not a happy outlook from someone married to a middle school teacher.

Didn't mean to imply that just the media were to blame. However, the tabloid coverage doesn't help anything. It's just like suicide...it's not tabloidized just for the reason that it would give others the same idea. All I am asking for is more responsible reporting. Of course there are many other reasons. Just look at what I said in my earlier posts. I agree with your other issues.

[Anneke]

The media is doing its job. If this is happening, we have a right to know. How else can we prepare and prevent these events? Wearing blinders isn't going to help.

[Marzoli]

As a teacher, I dread hearing the news in the springtime. My husband and I are both teachers in small rural schools, and we have had our share of tragedies--suicides, wrecks, just bad stuff. Usually, when school violence is trumpeted in the media, my students panic. We get lots of lectures about warning signs and such, and the kids want to talk a lot about whatever has happened. It is very weird that they have had absolutely nothing to say about the California shooting, at least not in my classes. And they won't have heard yet about the Pennsylvania one today. School violence has been around for a long time--they just used not to report it on the evening news like they do now. And when it was reported, it was handled differently. Somehow, I think it was better that way. There is a certain mentality that may lean toward copying flamboyant actions of others. For me, March to May are tough months to get through, and I could do without all the media fanfare. Yes, I agree, the public has a right to know. I'm just not sure what effect it has on some kids.

[theloggg]

I saw Dateline last night and I thought they did a good job covering the story. The impression I got was they were taking the angle of "this kid said he was going to do it, take ALL threats seriously and tell someone." I think they made their point that no matter how much you think someone is "just kidding", it needs to be reported.

[palmier]

I dont think the media is to blame. If we hide the problem, the problem still exists. I did however, make certain that we didnt watch the news that evening. I got to see a little bit of coverage during the day, and I didnt like the way reporters were searching for friends of the shooter. Almost looking for the most bizzar angle to exploit. A bit too much "dirty laundry".

[Papa]

Dear Friends:

The media is to blame to the extent that journalism has become "tabloidy" and unreliable in its effort to become more profitable. Even my favor CNN has fallen into that category lately.

The media is not, however, to blame for the violence in our society. It is like blaming the messenger for the bad news he/she brings. Many ancient Greek tragedies already addressed this issue centuries ago. The problem is that in our effort to improve our society to compete with others, we have raised individualism and competitiveness to a level that is suseptible to almost turning violent. This is the root of the problem. The rest are simply symptoms of that cultural disease. This is my opinion.

[Anneke]

Papa,
I see your point and I agree that the quality of the news is not always what it should be. On the other hand, one cannot blame the media for feeding people what they want to hear. If the media suddently started transmitting the news responsibly, and give a true balanced and educated view of things, no one would watch. I fno one watches, they go off the air. Once again, it's a pull rather than a push phenomenon.
People want reporters to give them as much dirt as possible; when they give facts, they want to be told whether they should be happy or upset about them. I guess that's a result of being bombarded with so much info everyday. Although frankly, I'm glad that all this info is available and would never want to go backwards in that respect.

[Greg]

I would agree that you can't blame the media alone for the occurence of tragic events such as these. I do believe that they should be held accountable for the way they report events and the lengths they will go to in order to do so. Remember the death of Princess Di in a car travelling at high speeds trying to escape the media? If I were to serve someone chicken and they were to contract salmonella poisoning, I don't blame the chicken and I'm definitely not allowed the luxury of saying I was just doing my job. Why shouldn't the press be held accountable in the same way I am? Certainly, freedom of the press is a right, but everything comes with a price. The price here is professional responsibility. A little less sensationalism and melodrama would be nice. Were I a journalist and I thought the way I was reporting events was even by a slight chance part of the problem, I would say, to h**l with the ratings, people are dying, I've got a responsibility and the buck stops here!
Of course, the responsibility doesn't rest on the media alone; parents, teachers, friends, etc. of children also have to take responsibility. Hillary Clinton is right about one thing, at least: it takes a village.