I'm a chicago chef interested in food as it relates to culture/sociology, etc. Right now I'm living in Italy for a year to delve further into this subject. Europeans are, in my opinion, closer to their cultural culinary heritage, more knowledgeable about their food's sources and production, more in touch with seasonality, and practice more regionalism in what they eat. I've read about the so-called "french paradox" where europeans, despite eating very rich diets, tend to suffer less frequently from diet-related illness. Could these differences be why? How much does attitude and individual thinking towards food and diet effect the overall healthiness of what is eaten?

I'd welcome anyone with any insights/thoughts/ideas, and also anyone with any contacts in Italy. I'm interested in talking with people about their habits and, even more, eating with them. This project is part of a thesis I'm working on as part of a program through university of chicago's dept. of sociology.

Thanks

------------------
eddie

I've heard that Asians and Northern Europeans, because they eat so much seafood,live healthier lifestyles. I've also heard about olive oil and wine (red wine in particular) lengthens your life by keeping your cholesterol low. I don't think a steady diet of Mc Donalds cheeseburgers and fries can compete

[Isa]

You should take into account not only the food but the lifestyle in general. In France, people tend to walk more. The town and cities were builds before the apparition of the car, hence their cities are more pedestrian friendly, distances are shorter and the train network is more develop. Car is not a way of life like in North America.

Cheese and a fruit is often eaten for dessert and croissants are a Sunday treat for most. In France, meat does not have the centre spot on a plate. Often they will start with a soup. They also eat more fruits and vegetables then the majority of North Americans. And junk food is not a way of life. The French don’t eat ladle of cream based sauce every day. This would be a exaggeration and a misconception Think for a minute how the French think of North America, two eggs & bacon for breakfast big steak or fried chicken for lunch and baked beans for dinner…

[Chef David Simpson]

Harvard does some very insightful studies on this subject. For myself, I live in a culture clash with every style and mannerism that haunt the streets of Los Angeles. The fusion fad is fixing to blow culture out of the water. It makes me see, think of being human means we all have to eat the same thing. Which is not what I want at all. We are all deverse cultures, and this causes alot of tension between chefs alike. I would like to get to know my roots and where my people came from.
Wow, this has stricken a nerve. Thanks elakin. And welcome to www.cheftalk.com.

[This message has been edited by Chef David Simpson (edited 01-12-2001).]

You mean we shouldn't serve Shrimp Tempura with Turnip Greens? Are you trying to diminish the mirth?

Interesting.

European Paradox:

I have wondered about that for years too. I do have some theories (with no scientific backup). One is that the French, in particular) who eat so much cheese, consume cream and butter, also drink wine. I think the wine has an effect on the retention of cholesterol.

The Italians, on the other hand, consume vast quantities of olive oil instead of the butter and cream. Olive oil is probably one of the few actually beneficial oils. The Italians also consume a lot of wine. Again the same proposition holds.

As far as other Europeans, I don't have a clue. Especially, the Scandinavians who also consume a lot of cheese. Don't have any idea what they counteract that with.

Anyway, this is just some conjecture on my part.

[cookM]

Originally posted by Crudeau:
You mean we shouldn't serve Shrimp Tempura with Turnip Greens? Are you trying to diminish the mirth?

Just had a good giggle...No diminished mirth here!
Seriously, I had worked with someone who was studying "Food Anthropology" and went to Peru to study rice.



[This message has been edited by cookM (edited 01-13-2001).]

elakin:
You're lucky you weren't in the Univ. of Chicago Department of Sociology 70 years ago. Instead of going to Italy to eat for a year, you would have lived in Back of the Yards and studied meat packers in their natural habitat.

Slightly different point re European eating habits- it's been my impression (not from experience, only reading and amateur cooking) that the use of garlic declines steadily as you go north from the Mediterranean. I'm not sure the Swedes have ever heard of it. Is this a sort-of-valid generality?

Mike

------------------
travelling gourmand

wow! thanks for all the great responses...didn't expect to see so much so soon...

responding to what some of you wrote...

yes, i do think that definitely wine (particularly red) and olive oil do have something to do with it. in france, spain (where i've also lived) and italy, they consume lots of both of these things, and i've read the studies that show that both do lower cholesterol. so, crudeau, palmier, i agree that that has a lot to do with it.

the thoughts about lifestyle i also agree with...they do tend to do a lot more walking and biking. things are closer together, so people go places more frequently without a car. it's a pretty common sight here to see old(er) people (like 50 plus) riding bikes around to run errands. how often do you see this in the u.s.? and i think the idea of shopping for food has something to do with this. americans go food shopping maybe once every week or two, by car. around here, i think most people (usually women) shop for food every day, and they walk. there is also the concept of the daily walk. in spain its called "paseo", in italy "passegiata." whatever you call it, in the late afternoon, people go out for a walk for a couple hours. it's so pervasive in spain that when one is caught up in it, you feel literally enveloped in a swarm of people and find yourself wondering what's going on until you realize that it happens every day. i ran into a spanish friend on the street one time in barcelona during paseo and he asked me in spainish "where do you walk? here?" i didn't understand the question until i realized he was asking me was this my normal paseo route. it's that pervasive. so i definitely agree, sisi, that this is a big factor.

as for garlic, mikeLM, from what i've seen what you said is true. the use of garlic diminishes in italy as you go north. i'm in bologna, north of tuscany in emilia-romagna, and they use almost no garlic in the food. i was in one restaurant where they offered "tost" and someone ordered one that was more or less like garlic bread. when it came to the table a really strong smell of garlic butter passed by and i looked around and saw most of the people in the restaurant wrinkling their noses and making sounds of disgust. to me it smelled really good, but i think that many northern italians connote garlic with the "coarser, unrefined" southern italians. they think it's "low-class" food. outside italy, i'm not sure how this goes. spanish food is redolent with garlic...tons of it.

that's it for now....again, thanks for all your comments and keep them coming.



------------------
eddie

[cape chef]

Hi Eddie, Your posting from Italy? that's cool.
Also a big reason for the "French paradox" Is the consumption of wine in Europe.
Wine is approached much differently then here in the states.It is not worshiped!! It is a daily beverage and has been linked to lowering the risk of heart disease do to it's ability to raise good Colestrial.But it is recommended to drink 1 or 2 glasses of red wine a day.More than that defeats the purpose. I am not recommending that people who do not drink start to drink...But in Europe they eat more fat (cheeses) and smoke more but have a lower rate of heart attacks and disease. 60 minutes a few years ago started the whole "french paradox ) thing with a very interesting report.There was a lot linked to the moderate consumption of red wine.Then of course came the studies and test and more studies Etc. The wine industry loved the whole idea (do you blame them?)
I do believe in the moderate consumption of wine and feel that it does in fact have a positive effect
cc

I've been working aon programs to get local kids, and the kids that come to our camp, to be more in touch with where their food comes from. It's amazing how when we prep chickens for grilling, many kids have never seen a raw chicken with a bone in it. I beleive the explosion of heat n serve and processed foods, along with fast foods. So we as aAmericans do not eat as healthy as our European counterparts, and sadly our youth are worse in their habits.

thanks again to those who've responded...let's keep this dialog going

campchef--i believe you hit it on the head. this is the kind of stuff that i'm looking for. i think you're right, many u.s. kids--adults as well--haven't seen a whole chicken, let alone would know how to butcher one. but they probably eat chicken like 5 times a week. i think this speaks volumes about the state of food in america. you mention processed, heat and serve type foods and fast food, and i again agree with you that this is a big part of the problem. did you ever look at the ingredients for most processed or "heat n serve" type products? those things are made in some giant factory somewhere and formulated so that they can get them to market in a couple weeks, then sit on shelves of grocery stores for up to a couple months. how do they do that? by pumping them up with preservatives, primarily the "natural" preservatives of salt (and specialized sodium compounds) and sugar. obviously, if the average american eats more of these type of foods than they eat chicken they cut up and cooked themselves, this results in an increase in things like high blood pressure, heart disease, and diabetes, whether they drink red wine, smoke, or whatever. you could be very health-conscious, watching every fat gram, and be eating some lean cuisine or something every night, but because of all the preservatives in that kind of stuff, you're still not eating healthy.

that is a concrete, factual point you've raised, but i'm even more interested in the unscientific, attitudinal issue. those kids HAD NEVER SEEN a piece of chicken on the bone, or a whole chicken. so do you think they made the connection that chickens are animals? americans, generally, increasingly want to avoid any knowledge that their meal was once a living creature. sociologists such call this "increased squeamishness" and have traced its development from when whole entire roasted animal carcasses were carved tableside up until today where most people only want to see a nice trimmed filet in a sterile styrofoam package. the less it looks like an animal's body, the better. in europe, this is not the case. most meat is served on the bone, and i've seen many restaurants prominently displaying dead animals like game birds, and in one case, a wild boar, in their window displays. and i'm not even talking about the butchers, where there is no hint of squeamishness as demure young housewives pass by whole baby pigs hanging from a hook, skinned whole rabbits with a little tuft of fur left on the tail to prove it's not a cat, and any other innards, heads, and the like that you can think of. but take an american tourist to these markets and listen to the squeals of disgust.

what all this means, to me, is that people are becoming more distant from their food. they don't want to know about the process. whether its knowing which part of the plant most fruits or vegetables come from, how grains are harvested or processed, or seeing meat in it's whole form and knowing how to take it apart into a filet, most americans don't have this knowledge, and they don't want it. they're in the dark, just eating what is put in front of them with blind faith. i believe that this causes a lot of uncertainty and doubt in most people, but that they push those feelings back, and choose not to think about them. but they're still there, and every day when we eat our two or three meals, that little kernel of doubt creeps in and causes stress and tension about what we're eating. i think that this not only is bad for us--just in terms of the extra stress--but that it causes the food to be that much less wholesome, that much less satisfying, than it could be.

most europeans not only prepare their own food from a more whole state, but they usually buy it from a more specialized vendor--a poultry man for chicken and eggs, a butcher for red meat, a produce seller for vegetables, etc. they go to these people habitually for years and develop relationships with them. they watch them cut up their chickens right in front of them to their specifications. certain vegetable just aren't there when their not in season. this develops a sense of trust and certainty about the food. and europeans, in general, seem to relish the food more. they take greater pleasure in preparing and eating it than do americans.

do these factors have something to do with the so-called french paradox? that's what i'm trying to find out.

thanks again for all your postings, i'm finding everyone's views fascinating to read.

------------------
eddie

[Mezzaluna]

Very interesting discussion. I keep in touch with friends in France, and the concern is growing that the nation's youth are becoming so Americanized that they're losing the reverence and knowledge of cuisine and food that's been the national pride for generations. Chefs are working to bring this generation back to the appreciation of fresh, non-processed food, simply prepared. I was privileged to eat home-cooked meals with a family for two three-week visits, and know that typical cuisine bourgeois is simple and fresh, lots of olive oil (and this in the Nord region near Lille), red wine and veggies. Yes, we ate rillettes du porc and cheese, but moderately. We walked some every day, but did drive as well- my hostess apologizing for being expedient rather than healthful! Moderation seemed to be a key; portions were smaller, nothing wasted. I liked the attitude. Now, when I shop in the supermarket for meat, I see "marinated" pork and poultry- soaked in salty solutions with plenty of chemicals for 'tenderness'. I tell the butchers I will not buy these items for these reasons. I shop nearly every day (mostly because I HATE to plan ahead), but get the best produce and interesting cuts of meat for my trouble.

Great question. Great responses.

My niece spent a week w/my husband and me. She was everything her parents said she wasn't. She wanted to work in my kitchen. She wanted to share in the chores. She wanted to eat cheese and cook & eat dead animals. She LOVES to eat.

I told her this was contrary to what I was told to expect. She said, "Well, if everything you ate came out of a can or was microwaved, what would you do? You make everything fresh. You add spices and you can cook real food."

Yes it was a compliment because I "think" I can cook. (Some have told me this. wink wink) But I was more amazed to learn that our modern society would rather pop a microwave lasagna (average price- who knows?) in the oven than make it from scratch (more time, less expense, more flavor).

I talk with people who have children and they would rather have "SubWay" nite for five than make something as simple and as inexpensive as a casserole. Why? Because they "think" they don't have time.

Long story not quite so long?

Fresh ingredients, in season are the best (this is the quote of every European counterpart I've ever met), a little time and of course, a Two Fat Pigs special - wine - and you have a perfect meal. (Everything in moderation. My brother called after Kat's trip to thank me for introducing her to wine in a friendly and appropriate atmostphere. - What's wrong with him? He's my brother? He knows wine goes with dinner like music goes with song.)

Olive oil, what do you use?
Garlic, sans garlic? I don't think so.
Herbs, con herbs? Absolutely
Fresh, always. Period. End of statement.
Wine, is a meal possible w/o it?

Fresh, full, fun.
It's how you eat!

Angelina:

Can I come to your house for dinner????