[Mezzaluna]

Pan, I can just see you and your wife trailing behind your skyscraper of a son!

I'm keeping track of everyone's suggestions. My travel notes will help us plan a wonderful, memorable trip. We'll have plenty of interesting choices to make. The only problem will be getting over hotel price stick-shock. It's my first trip to California since 1984, when I stayed in LA with 8000 other teachers at an NEA convention; the union paid the bill. We're trying to find a meeting point among amenities (we like a full-service hotel), location (Union Square seems attractive) and price (below $200 seems like a bargain).

[panini]

Mezz,
The Marriott Marquis in Union Sq. wasn't such a great property. The concierge was above average. They always had 2-3 Towns cars available through valet to take you within a 5mile or so radius. We used this service all the time for a tip. They even picked us up if we arranged it. Hotel Noisy during the day but we weren't there for that. They are undergoing a remodel. If you call them directly you might get a deal if you go back and forth and mention the construction. We were able to get a deal better then a package offered. I'm pretty sure it was 99. or under a night for a week.
We usually use the amex packages to travel. We always seem to get a good deal.
pan

[Mezzaluna]

Pan, I will certainly check that! I love the idea of a ride to avoid churning my way up a hill, inhaler at the ready.

[deltadoc]

Originally Posted by shel

Doc, I'll get back to you on that hippie bizniz ...

Shel, still waitin'! -

doc

[shel]

Originally Posted by deltadoc

Shel, still waitin'! -
doc

Sorry DD - I wrote out my comments but forgot to post them. Here y'go:

Let me clear something up. Just because some overweight, long-haired jamoke and his burnt out girlfriend were wearing beads and flowers doesn't mean they were hippies. To my mind, the true hippie (and I hate that term) were those that came to The Haight, and other places, and tried to create some social change, and who made contributions to society, such as providing free food as mentioned in an earlier message, created art and music, explored healthier food and farming techniques, and looked for alternatives to the more typical materialistic middle-class life. It was during this period I learned about vegetarianism, macrobiotic foods and cooking, eating healthier, and was introduced to growing one's food and organic gardening (the "French intensive method was my first foray into organic gardening), recycling, and so many other things that are now pretty much acceptable, main-stream practices, although often corrupted by corporate and political interests.

Many of what the press called "hippies" were nothing more than drug pushers, misfits, troublemakers, petty criminals, and the like. They flocked to The Haight like flies to a corpse, and by the time the press caught on and started publicizing the "hippie movement" which drew these creeps to the Haight, many of the "founding hippies," as it were, had moved on and out of the area, starting alternative businesses and doing more constructive things. A lot of "us" moved to Marin County or to Berkeley. Many in the Berkeley segment are still driving their late-sixties Volvos

There was no "Death of Hippie," at least as reported by the main stream press. We just moved and moved on, incorporating what we learned and experienced into more main stream and constructive endeavors.

AS far as I know, there was no specific "Norbert the Nark" other than a character in the Gilbert Shelton "Fabulous Furrie Freak Brothers" comix.

I think I saw the documentary you mentioned, but don't really remember it.

I don't think those times will return, but, in reality, they never left. There are still - and there have always been - people looking to improve life and make positive social changes. It's often those on the fringes that get things started, bringing up issues and ideas that slowly find their way into the main stream.

Mario Savio wasn't considered a hippie by the press - in fact he was considered a troublemaker - yet he essentially started the free speech movement, something embraced by many who were hippies, and who used the premise to bring about social change. Joan Baez wasn't a hippie, but she often showed up in The Haight to give concerts, talks, and fight for social change. Peter Coyote, the actor, wasn't a hippie, yet there he was, right alongside the rest of us, handing out free food, looking to make changes in society. All of these non-hippies were no different than many of the rest of us, doing the same things but with a different label applied by the press. Joan Baez is still considered a social activist, Peter Coyote cotinues to be involved in what he believed in then - I don't know what happened to Mario. but we all owe him at least a little thank you.

Shel

[panini]

Shel,
I just wanted to say that i agree with alot you have said.A hippie was more about a way of life then a movement. Corse I'm still a little confused and still wearing my tie died shirts. I also think the "hippies" were smart enough to figure out that going up against the political machine was a no win and move into trying to better mankind with other lifestyles,views and inventions. Alot of the old timers went green and a lot went scientific. Thank godness for both for I would be wasting paper sending this by mail..
pan

[shroomgirl]

i wanna be a hippy.

[deltadoc]

Originally Posted by shel

Sorry DD - I wrote out my comments but forgot to post them. Here y'go:

Let me clear something up. Just because some overweight, long-haired jamoke and his burnt out girlfriend were wearing beads and flowers doesn't mean they were hippies. To my mind, the true hippie (and I hate that term) were those that came to The Haight, and other places, and tried to create some social change, and who made contributions to society, such as providing free food as mentioned in an earlier message, created art and music, explored healthier food and farming techniques, and looked for alternatives to the more typical materialistic middle-class life. It was during this period I learned about vegetarianism, macrobiotic foods and cooking, eating healthier, and was introduced to growing one's food and organic gardening (the "French intensive method was my first foray into organic gardening), recycling, and so many other things that are now pretty much acceptable, main-stream practices, although often corrupted by corporate and political interests.

Many of what the press called "hippies" were nothing more than drug pushers, misfits, troublemakers, petty criminals, and the like. They flocked to The Haight like flies to a corpse, and by the time the press caught on and started publicizing the "hippie movement" which drew these creeps to the Haight, many of the "founding hippies," as it were, had moved on and out of the area, starting alternative businesses and doing more constructive things. A lot of "us" moved to Marin County or to Berkeley. Many in the Berkeley segment are still driving their late-sixties Volvos

There was no "Death of Hippie," at least as reported by the main stream press. We just moved and moved on, incorporating what we learned and experienced into more main stream and constructive endeavors.

AS far as I know, there was no specific "Norbert the Nark" other than a character in the Gilbert Shelton "Fabulous Furrie Freak Brothers" comix.

I think I saw the documentary you mentioned, but don't really remember it.

I don't think those times will return, but, in reality, they never left. There are still - and there have always been - people looking to improve life and make positive social changes. It's often those on the fringes that get things started, bringing up issues and ideas that slowly find their way into the main stream.

Mario Savio wasn't considered a hippie by the press - in fact he was considered a troublemaker - yet he essentially started the free speech movement, something embraced by many who were hippies, and who used the premise to bring about social change. Joan Baez wasn't a hippie, but she often showed up in The Haight to give concerts, talks, and fight for social change. Peter Coyote, the actor, wasn't a hippie, yet there he was, right alongside the rest of us, handing out free food, looking to make changes in society. All of these non-hippies were no different than many of the rest of us, doing the same things but with a different label applied by the press. Joan Baez is still considered a social activist, Peter Coyote cotinues to be involved in what he believed in then - I don't know what happened to Mario. but we all owe him at least a little thank you.

Shel

Thanks Shel. Actually I always kind of felt there were two kinds of people going on, hippies, and flower children. I always thought of myself as the latter. LOL, the "Norbert the Nark" was just a fun way of saying the guy in the documentary was a fake and probably undercover. At least according to my friend who lived there during that time.

So, again, as Grace Slick pointed out, most of it was just like today, youngsters trying to "fit in" and "be cool" by acting/dressing in the manner of the day.

I actually met the guy who was the real life character from whom one of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers were modeled. He ran a business out of Texas and sold, among other things, the Oat Willy plastic bottle thing for smoking with.

doc

[Jayme]

Mezz- LOL I think very soon, you will have to extend your trip to fit in all that everyone is telling you....
I would disagree about skipping Fisherman's Wharf- between there and Pier 39 - it is the classic SF visit- don't have to linger long, just stroll through, gaze at sea lions.... the little baby donut shop (sorry cannot remember name) is worth a look- completely mechanized- fun to watch, and the results are pretty tasty. If you get a chance to check out the Hyatt-Regency hotel downtown- the place is impressive- lobby ceiling is 12 stories high. When you head to Monterey- even through hubby is a non-fish eater, they have more than fish- a little place in Pacific Grove- across from Asilomar - called "The Fishwife"- not fancy but nice, has a carribean influence, great food and reasonable price, right next to the beach for a stroll afterwards. And if you are in the mood for burgers- in Seaside (I think, the towns change abruptly sometimes) try the Fremont Express- they have a selection of burgers from veggie to buffalo and a scale model train that runs on tracks over your head. Cool place- casual. And check out the Breakwater beach area- it is scuba diving central...day and night diving there- the little deli at the end has great clam chowder and sandwiches....and you can walk from there up the street to Cannery Row. I'm sure you will have a blast!!

[Mezzaluna]

Thanks for the suggestions, Jayme! Maybe I can get my DH to try some fresh, Pacific fish.

You never know what you're going to get when you post a question here at CT. As for my "hippie" years-- I went to school in the middle of the cornfields in central Illinois. They didn't have a demonstration until the spring of '70, if I remember correctly, so the '60s were a snooze in the town called (I'm not kidding) Normal. I wasn't a hippie or even a flower child; more of a flower child wannabe, mostly. When you have a Jewish mother like mine keeping a tight grip on your checkbook and your GPA, you don't go off experimenting a whole lot. Not a whole lot.

Back to the subject at hand: these are great suggestions for the City by the Bay. I continue to add them to my notes.

Mezz

[Slothrop]

If you're going to be in the Haight, check out Rosemunde Sausage on Haight, about 2 blocks east of Divisidero. Gourmet sausages, everything from duck to lamb to much more exotic, depending on what they have on hand. Also, if you're a music fan, hit Amoeba records, at the west end of Haight where it hits the panhandle of GG Park. Biggest selection of pretty much every kind of music you could want.

There are a few good Thai restaurants--unassuming mom and pop places--on Post just west of Union Square--Ar Roi and Thai Ginger plus another that I forget the name of. Used to eat at these all the time after work and they never disappointed.

Ditto to the market in the old Ferry building. Cowgirl Creamery in there has excellent cheese.

If you're going to Napa, plan on picnic-ing. There's a spot called Oakdale Grocery on the way there from SF that is a foodie's wet dream. They have everything you'll need to build a delicious--though a little pricey--lunch. I'm a sucker for Coppola's winery, not a huge fan of the wine but he has a little museum upstairs with Duvall's surfboard from Apocalypse Now, Vito/Michael's desk from The Godfather movies, all of Coppola's Oscars and a lot more. Good place to take a movie fan who's not 100% into the idea of a winery trip. Also, in downtown Napa there's a food museum called COPIA that's nice. It won't blow your mind or anything, but it's an interesting visit. Lots of stuff on the history of food, Julia Child donated a lot of $$$ and the restaurant in the museum is called Julia's Kitchen. She donated the wall from her kitchen to them and it was re-installed there.

Sonoma is a good trip as well. It's less pricey, less touristy than Napa.

If you're going to Monterey, whale watching is great fun.

Ditto on North Beach, no need for a dinner reservation just walk up Columbus and pick a spot. Any of them will be fine, most of them will be very good.

Skip Starbucks and find Peet's coffee shops while you're there. They are based out of the Bay Area and are excellent roasters.

If there were one thing I would say is a must-have in SF, it's fish tacos at El Chachanilla at 21st/Harrison. You go up to a window in the side of a building and place your order. You get a piece of fried fish laid out on two very small white corn tortilla. (Don't worry, the fish is so lightly breaded you'll barely know it's fried.) Then you dress up your tacos with a selection of salsas, cilantro, onion. You take them inside, and enjoy. While you're down here, in the Mission, check out some of the murals and the churches, esp. the Mission Dolores on 16th, which is beautiful.

I used to work for Hyatt, and in my time with them worked at both the Hyatt Regency and the Grand Hyatt as revenue manager, which is the guy who decides how much you're paying for a hotel room on a given day. So if you have any questions about booking a hotel room in SF, feel free to PM me, I'd be happy to give you a little advice.

John

[Mezzaluna]

John, first let me say "thank you" for your reminiscences of SF. They'll be added to my notes. Second, I see this is your first post so I'll say "welcome to Chef Talk". When you get a chance please stop in the Welcome Forum and introduce yourself.

I came across this at CNN.com this morning: California's North Coast: Savor Tomales Bay - CNN.com. Has anyone been there?

[shel]

Originally Posted by Jayme

I would disagree about skipping Fisherman's Wharf- between there and Pier 39 - it is the classic SF visit- don't have to linger long, just stroll through, gaze at sea lions....

I'd agree with Jayme on this. Plus there's some interesting art work along the Embarcadero.

shel

[Pastry Maven]

Originally Posted by Mezzaluna

John, first let me say "thank you" for your reminiscences of SF. They'll be added to my notes. Second, I see this is your first post so I'll say "welcome to Chef Talk". When you get a chance please stop in the Welcome Forum and introduce yourself.

I came across this at CNN.com this morning: California's North Coast: Savor Tomales Bay - CNN.com. Has anyone been there?

Hi Mezz...Yes, Been there many times, as it is one of my favorite day-trips; it is BEAUTIFUL, and if you're planning a trip to Point Reyes/Muir Woods/Stinson Beach, Tomales Bay would be a logical addition, and a great place to stop for lunch or dinner. You would need to plan on spending a full day in the area, to make the trip worthwhile...It's quite a drive, along very scenic but winding roads, either along the coast on Highway 1 or through San Rafael/Ross on Sir Francis Drake Blvd, so what seems like a short distance can take a bit longer, due to slower progress on often crowded two-lane country roads. Since you'll be here in May (one of the best times, weather-wise), Heart's Desire Beach is not-to-be-Missed!! It's on the Inverness side of Tomales Bay, and is a great place to swim/kayak if you're so inclined, or even just to take in the scenery and have a nice picnic. Then you can wind back down the road toward the inland side of Tomales Bay and hit one of the many restaurants along the way...lots of seafood choices, as well as other fare. I've only been to Nick's, so can't speak to other choices, but have heard great things about Hog Island Oysters, etc.

Hope this helps...

Micki

[Jock]

Originally Posted by Slothrop

If there were one thing I would say is a must-have in SF, it's fish tacos at El Chachanilla at 21st/Harrison. You go up to a window in the side of a building and place your order. You get a piece of fried fish laid out on two very small white corn tortilla. (Don't worry, the fish is so lightly breaded you'll barely know it's fried.) Then you dress up your tacos with a selection of salsas, cilantro, onion. You take them inside, and enjoy.

If you go here wave to me across the street. I look out my window and I can see this place. (The cross street is called Treat; it's a small street between the two major roads - Harrison and Folsom Streets.)

If you get to Golden Gate Park go to the DeYoung Museum. I know you don't do museums but you can go to the top of their observation tower for free and get a spectacular view of the park and beyond. Just across the way from the DeYoung is the California Academy of Sciences building which is under construction. Actually the major construction is completed and now we are preparing the interior for the exhibits. Notice I said "we". I started working at the Academy about six weeks ago. Very exciting stuff.

Jock