Silly Question???

KYHeirloomer · #1 09-18-2009, 07:55 PM

Until recently we didn't have Bravo. So I've been playing catch up with Top Chef, watching reruns of the past two seasons as well as the current one. Got one question:

Does any owner or chef of a classic French restaurant own a tie?

Gunnar · #2 09-19-2009, 09:12 AM

they usually wear the neckerchief at least when in uniform and what chef really ever wants to wear a tie?

KYHeirloomer · #3 09-19-2009, 09:27 AM

I understand not wanting to wear a tie---that's one of the reasons I left the corporate world. But, if I sit down to dinner at what purports to be a fine-dining (more than that, fine French dining) establishment, I dress for the occasion.

For instance, in one episode the compeitors were cooking for Joel Robechon and a group represented as "among the finest French chefs" in the country. Tom Collicio wore a tie. And, because he was told to, Kevin, a competitor who was being rewarded with this dinner, also wore a suit and tie. With one exception, though, the rest of the people at table wore only jackets---some wore them over their chef's coats, the rest had sporty shirts with the top buttons open.

Not unusual, either. Time after time during the three seasons I watched there were gatherings similar to that. And few of the men involved wore ties.

Doesn't send the right message, IMO. Or maybe I'm just too old fashioned. Y'all reckon I can show up at, say, Le Bernardin, dressed in Bermuda shorts and a madras shirt and expect to be served?

Koukouvagia · #4 09-19-2009, 02:34 PM

I think you may be a bit old fashioned no? Are you implying that eating french food requires a tie? Do french people wear ties when they eat at restaurants??

Honestly I don't like ties and there are so many options to look nice without having to wear one. It's hard to be fashion-forward while wearing a tie in the traditional sense. We've been to plenty of fancy restaurants and never has my hubby worn a "tie." He does however look well-put together and rather trendy in a nice jacket and that looks better to my eyes anyway.

KYHeirloomer · #5 09-19-2009, 03:56 PM

I'm not implying anything. People do what they want, and each of us has his/her own idea of what is proper.

For me, going to a restaurant of that level is a very major event, and I dress for the occasion. That includes a tie. Remember, we're not talking about merely eating French food. We're talking about some of the most highly rated restaurants in the country.

I just think that, based on what appears on Top Chef, Tom Colicio is the only one who seems to know how to dress.

The irony, in the case of the Joel Robechon episode, is that Colicio specifically instructed his competitor to wear a suit and tie. And then the two of them were the only ones dressed that way.

DC Sunshine · #6 09-19-2009, 05:22 PM

Call me old-fashioned too. If I'm going out to a big event, its dress up time. Take care presenting yourself well to respect the occasion. For me, with men, that involves a tie.

Once you get home, its also sometimes a reminder of what you had for dinner....some always ends up on the tie

PeteMcCracken · #7 09-19-2009, 06:19 PM

While it is alway easy to "dress down" (take off the jacket or tie, roll up the shirtsleeves), it is impossible to "dress up"!

One is NEVER wrong for "over-dressing", one is ALWAYS wrong for "under-dressing".

shipscook · #8 09-20-2009, 06:56 AM

Boy, not to start stir it up here, but as another old schooler, I have a problem with jeans.

At the nicest of places, I see men with jackets and jeans or ladies with pretty sweaters or blouses and jeans.

Sorry, even if they are $200 jeans, sometimes to me they look out of place??

Nan

KYHeirloomer · #9 09-20-2009, 08:07 AM

I couldn't agree with you more, Nan.

There are times and places where jeans and a jacket are cool. But a fine-dining restaurant is not the place.

Of course, I'm old enough to remember when jeans were what you changed into so you didn't ruin your good clothes. And I reserve public judgement of what I think about anyone who'd pay that kind of money for a pair of denim work pants with a fancy label.

Koukouvagia · #10 09-20-2009, 09:48 AM

This must be a generational thing. I agree that one has to dress up to go to an event and always appreciate older dashing men dressed up in their finery, including ties. Denim trouser pants are all very in style right now though and I even see corporate people wearing them. The outfit is all about the shoes anyway, that's where the formal factor comes from anyway. You could be wearing the fanciest suit but pair it with a shoe from Payless and the whole idea of fancy goes out the window.

Formal dining is not what it used to be so I hear. Who wants to go to a restaurant if they have to worry about what they're wearing and which fork they should be using anyway? Those days are luckily over, at least they are here in Manhattan.

Tom C. is hardly what I look to for advice on fitting in with great chefs. Not because he's not a great chef, I'm sure he is. But he doesn't have the confidence level to hang with those heavy hitters anyway. He always comes across as very awkward when he's on panel with chefs more prestigious than he. He's not on par with Robuchon or Keller or any other great french chef - they seem way more down to earth than we want them to be.

Gunnar · #11 09-20-2009, 05:44 PM

lol, I hate ties and will try to get away with the mock turtleneck and sport coat whenever possible. at least its a sharper look then the dress shirt unbuttoned halfway and my "bling" being framed on a wife beater shirt. Cause I have heard thats the "style"

DC Sunshine · #12 09-20-2009, 11:27 PM

Nan, What sometimes gets me about jeans on a night out....they'll let females into venues wearing jeans, but if a male tries to enter the same place wearing jeans - nope - NO Entry. Reason - Sir, you are wearing jeans.

Jeans are neat casual at the best (well if they are not the slashed up type) but never ever formal or for a big occasion, as you say, no matter what they cost. As far as I can work out, jeans were designed by Levi Strauss as a tough, hard working persons garment. Definitely not for a formal costume. They are for getting dusty, muddy, and to be tough enogh to take the hardest punishment. And my point is, that's what I think of when I see them.

Just my 2c worth

KYHeirloomer · #13 09-21-2009, 08:00 AM

DC, workman's pants made of denim existed long before Levi Strauss. His contribution was to have them held together with rivets, rather than sewn seams. This made them incredibly durable at a time when such clothing was really needed by the 49ers of the California gold rush.

Your point about women can, men can't is dead on. Who makes those rules?

DC Sunshine · #14 09-21-2009, 08:30 AM

KYH I'm sure denims have been around since Adam was a boy

So have I, sometimes I think! Mr Strauss added a good touch.

I think the generations here are going to have to agree to disagree....there seems to be a middle ground lacking.

I would ask though - if one were going to meet a head of state- say...oh I dunno, Pres. Obama, or to receive an MBE from the Queen in the UK - would one wear a suit and tie, for men, or a formal dress/pants suit for women?

Or jeans. (Oh I am gonna wear this (pun intended) plus some criticism no doubt)

Just leave it that I am at one end of the scale, and leave me to my choices and fuddy duddy ideals

KYHeirloomer · #15 09-21-2009, 09:46 AM

I don't know if it's strictly a generational thing or not, DC.

My eldest son, who has eaten in some of the finest restuarants in the world (he and his wife plan their trips around visiting Michelin starred restaurants, for instance), wouldn't consider going to a fine-dining restaurant without a tie. In his case, a jacket and tie won't do; he puts on a suit.