Returning a bad bottle of wine

[David Jones]

There's a long thread in another forum about returning food to the kitchen. What about sending wine back? I've been on both sides of this situation many times. It's a great process to train your waitstaff on, since a green crew and manager can really make the restaurant look bad.

Case in point Stregganonna in Chicago is an Italian/New World Cuisine (whatever that means) restaurant in a nice neighborhood with an up-and-coming restaurant row. The restaurant is owned by a successful group with several other units. I'm starting a casual dinner with my best friend, and I know that we'll likely order two bottles of wine. I order an inexpensive (at the time) Spanish red - Conde de Valdemar Crianza.

The young lady had some training in wine service, but she was nervous even with a cheap bottle. We made conversation to put her at ease. She poured the taste for my friend, who thought the wine was corked. He asked the server to pour a taste for me, and indeed the wine was VERY corked. The server put the bottle down on the table, and ran off to get the manager. She came back in ten minutes and explained that the manager, "who knows a lot about wine," said that he "didn't want her to open another bottle of the same wine, because we probably wouldn't like that either." We should pick something else.

I asked the server to send the manager over, because like him, I too know something about Spanish wines, in particular this wine, and this was not an issue of liking or not liking the wine. The bottle was clearly corked. AND, no matter what the manager thought was going to happen, we weren't going to drink this bottle, so she could take it away.

The manager refused to come to the table, but I saw him taste the wine at the bar across the restaturant. He made an iccky face, and the server served us another bottle and a second of the same wine that were just fine.

[cape chef]

David, Interesting post.
Most restaurants that have a decent cellar or someone who is in charge of the beverage end of the operation is usually pretty understanding of the problems with "corked"wines.I think sometime the restaurant staff may feel that the average customer doe's not really know mush about wine.But on the contrary I think the dining public is more educated then ever before when it comes to food and wine. A corked wine after being sniffed and tasted by the restaurants "wine guru"should be removed without any problem "if in fact it is corked"
The same wine and vintage should be offered to the guest...Rarely do you have more then one corked bottle to a case. albeit it has happened.with the cost of even entry level wines at restaurants consumers should comfortable with sending back a bottle of wine.
If it a wine that is not to their liking...it is important that the costumer make the server aware of his/her preference of styles.because on the other hand wines are sent back many times because it was not what the consumer thought it was.
cc

[David Jones]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! I'd even go on to say that if a bottle is refused, remove it from the table immediately. The wine guru can taste and determine whether or not the wine can be offered by the glass to other guests, or used as a tasting opportunity for the staff, or simply returned to the vendor for credit. I would never want to force someone to drink a wine they're not enjoying, even if it is technically not corked. In that event, work with the guest to find a wine that suits their palate.

[cape chef]

David, you are right on the money!
It is more important to hopefully make a customer a frequent guest of your establishment then to "challenge" their knowledge of wine and there for making for an uncomfortable dining expereance.and pretty much guarantee they will not return
cc

I would think that with a wine in the price range of a Valdemar Crianza (great wine, by the way - one of my favs) a conscientious owner/manager wouldn't hesitate to replace a questionable bottle. One that's really corked would indeed make a great training opportunity for the staff, and if it's in fact OK he/she should just take it home and drink it.

I'm wondering though about what experiences you might have had with the expensive stuff. Thankfully, I've never had to send back a high-end bottle, say something over $70 or so. Do you have any thoughts about that? Should the rules be different? Just what can/should you do if the customer adamantly claims that a perfectly good bottle of high-priced wine is "off"?

On a related subject, since you both are professionals in this, I'm curious what you view as the currently "correct" way to serve wine. The two things I've been seeing a lot lately that absolutely drive me nuts are (1) the server taking my glass from the table (and holding it by the bowl, no less!) when he/she pours the wine and (2) holding the bottle, label side out, in front of me while I taste the wine (are they thinking that I forgot what I ordered?). I'd really like to know the sequence that you tell your servers to follow.

[cape chef]

Dick that would drive me nuts.I hate when a server touches my glass never mind by the bowl.And holding the label out for you to see is something that many servers do.It's kind of a confirmation on the wine you chose Albeit a little unnessesary.I am a chef and do not spend a lot of time in the FOH and our F&B director is Swiss and went through the whole Swiss hotel scene etc. So he is on top of wine service.But as being a lover of the grape I would ask the server for a new glass and have him/her place it by the stem at your setting and pour it there.There really is no need for them to be touching your glass.Those darn touchy-feely servers
cc

I'm thankful that the two times in a restaurant I've returned bad wine I've been understood. These were at some pretty swanky addresses. The first time was during our first course and I really thought the wine was supposed to mixed on the salad. The second time, we were at one of our fave eating establishments in Pheonix. The wine choice was top-shelf. The waitress was pist (about the wine - not the return) and the owner was mortified. But it does happen. We sampled a second bottle of the same wine and it was fine and left with a third bottle (thanks to our wonderful host) to enjoy on our own. (The third bottle was fine as well.)
I have purchased, besides these two restaurant instances, only three "bad" bottles of wine. All of which have been replaced with no complaints by either the seller or the buyer. I return the wine, uncorked and undrank, to the seller.

[This message has been edited by Angelina (edited 01-30-2001).]

[David Jones]

To your questions, Dick, no way should the server pick up your glass to pour - but without proper server training? When I steward a bottle of wine, I do hold the bottle so that the person who chose the wine can take another look at the label, and I don't really know why. I have had people tell me, no I am not making this up, "we ordered Zinfandel - this wine is RED" and "isn't a chianti bottle supposed to be in wicker?"

It's really a heart-breaker when someone starts sending back serious wines. I was a captain years ago at a four-star restaurant here in Chicago. We had just opened, and our cellar was still in the "growing" phase. A guest sent back a three old Bordeaux, until finally the owner talked him into the third. I think he was just playing big shooter for the night and wanted the attention. The wines were all showing well.

Thanks for the info, cc and David. I was thinking about you guys and this serving wine thing yesterday - I'm on a project out here in the Berkshires (that's western Massachusetts, for our distant friends), which is not exactly off the end of the civilized world, and pick up the local paper to find an article about purchasing wine in a restaurant. The clown who's pretending to be some sort of authority on this goes on to describe how he and his friends at a "fancy" restaurant send back three bottles of wine in a row because they "don't like them." So, I'm afraid that's the sort of thing you're up against and you have my sympathy.

[David Jones]

I meant to respond to your last post sooner, Dick. Believe me, if these difficult, ignorant people were the majority, I would have gotten out of the business years ago!

Despite what you might hear, 95% percent of restaurant guests are a pleasure to serve.

[glutz]

Have just read your Wine return Daivid,

Well done,
a short story,
as a student doing my first 'waitering' .
Man OK-d the wine, then pour for wife,
who took a big sip, then complained to husband that wine was not good,
fortunately, manager came to rescue.

Better than being served a more expensive wine in a new Fish Restaurant in South AFrica,
ordered from an obviously temporary wine list.
On checking the open bottle, asked to see the wine list again, after a long long wait, another computer printed wine list was brought over,
much drama and performances by all,
not a recommended incident for repeating.

[kokopuffs]

Are wine corks supposed to be sniffed; or are they scrutinized for tartrate crystals? The latter indicates a wine that may well need more ageing; that's been my experience.

Some bottles of the same lot have been known to go bad. "Durability" can be a function of the bottler. The same wine bottled by different companies from different countries can demonstrate different flavors and variations to ageing.

[ April 16, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

I suppose I'll get some argument on this, but my feeling is that wine corks should best be ignored or, at most, looked at to satisfy one's self - if indeed one has reason to doubt - that the cork indicates the same bottler/chateau and vintage as does the label. There is nothing to be learned from a wine cork that can't be learned (and much better, too) from looking at, smelling, and tasting a small sample of the wine, which happens about five seconds later in the official "ceremony". My usual practice is to simply touch, or at most, pick the cork up and immediately put it down again so the server will get on with things and not stand there like a zombie waiting for me to do something silly with the wretched thing.

I see much less these days of the pseudo wannabe wine snob habit of studiously sniffing aromas from what is essentially an old piece of tree bark, all-the-while maintaining a thoughtful, yet quizzical, expression and simultaneously assuming the gravitas of a Greek oracle auguring over sheep entrails. I suppose that's a good thing, as it indicates we're becoming a more knowledgeable nation of wine drinkers, but it does diminish the amount of entertainment I used to get in restaurants.

My understanding is that there is nothing in particular indicated by the presence or absence of tartrate crystals on the cork or in the bottle. If they were indicative of a young wine, then presumably as the wine aged they would be redissolved and I don't think that's the way things work. I'll stand corrected if anyone has information to the contrary.

[kokopuffs]

My experience with tartrate crystals is that they can indicate a "harsh", young wine that may mellow with age. Some wines heavy with tartrate crystals were allowed to age an extra 8-10 years. After that, they tasted smooth and good. I have nothing to say about letting the crystals "redissolve".

I also examine the cork to see if it's dry or moist. However, most consumers drink their wine young so the cork doesn't have the time to fully moisten. A dry cork can indicate either a young wine or one whose cork is so dry that it shrank and allowed the product to possibly oxidize. It happens seldom, though.

[ April 16, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

[David Jones]

I was told once that tartrate crystals on the cork can indicate that the bottle has been through a wide temperature range - and could have been damaged. Playing with the cork is sort of a superfluous exercise, when the wine is right there ready to be tasted. I've seen flawless corks come out of the most oxidized, undrinkable wine; and I've seen corks with years of seepage evidence come out of old Bordeaux and Barabarescos that were beautiful, vibrant wines. Go figure.

When I captained, I would examine the cork as a part of my stewarding. I never presented the cork to the guest.