Puff Pastry

[cape chef]

I'm trying to figure out exactly how many layers form when making puff pastry.

I know when enclosing the butter into the detrempe to make the pastry is the first step before rolling and turning but heres were I'm not sure.When your pastry is done theres 729 layers of butter between 730 layers of dough which gives you 1459 layers (as it seems to me) Mille Feulle of course means "thousand leaves" I multiplied everything times 3 at each turn to come up with that number. Is that correct?

I want to be sure of this # because it will be part of one of my quiz's in regional French Cuisine. The books I have at home don't give an exact number.

TIA for any help

PS, for those who wonder, i'm teaching the class, not a student trying to cheat

[panini]

Hey Brad,
What are your folds? are you using all books? any singles?
There are not 1000.
Jeff

[cape chef]

Originally Posted by panini

Hey Brad,
What are your folds? are you using all books? any singles?
There are not 1000.
Jeff

Jeff,

What is a "single"?

6 Three folds or 4 four folds is how I make the pastry.

You are saying theres less then 1000 layers? This confuses me because if I do the math 6 three folds will yield exactly 1459 layers. What am I missing?

How many folds do you make? 5 three folds should yield 883 layers. is that your technique?

Thanks
Brad

[panini]

Brad,
We use 4 books, it's a little less crunchy. I'm thinking 1024, I don't know why though.
Everybody calls it different. Laminating, we call the third fold a single and the 4 fold a book.
If we want it a little more crunchier or for savory we will use 1 single, 1book,
3 singles.
Might want to give the folds with your question.
Jeff
That didn't help you at all, did it?

[cape chef]

Jeff,

No that helped, and thank you, although your over 1000 layers and said originally it's less?

I understand what you mean by "book" and "single" but in regards to a "crunchier"pastry that leaves me a bit confused Isn't the finished pastry the same in regards to lack of gluten and composite, Is the egg wash and temperature more important for texture?
I know I went off my original question, but to me puff pastry is the most challenging and I appreciate the insight

:EDIT: Jeff, You did say that the layers where not 1000. I assumed you meant over 1000.

[panini]

Sorry Brad,
I meant there was not exactly 1000. I don't think it's less, actually more.
I found over time that the retarding time has more of an effect then all else.
If we retard more times with less folds it makes our puff more crunchier.
The books expidites and the lower the numbers of retarding resulting in a less crunchy puff.
This is just we use. It's been so many years since I've even thought about puff, I hope someone jumps on and lets us know.
Has Kyle been around? He should be able to tell us everything. Heck! Laminating is a new word for me. One of the crew just finished laminating but she's at school tonight.

[cape chef]

Thanks Jeff,

You are very helpful and thorough.

Yes, Kyle is the man, but, he is probably working with bread flour "higher protein" = higher gluten when worked. Puff needs a flour with lower proteins as to not develop a gluten to toughen the dough.Theres no leavening agent in puff pastry. It relies on the butter to "steam" the layers during cooking.

[thebighat]

I don't know about the lower protein thing, but it kind of makes sense that the fewer folds, the crunchier. The dough layers will be thicker, though the times I've baked say the trimming of croissant dough after not enough folds just to see what would happen, it was crunchy, but I would also describe it as coarse, not finished. I use a 3, a 4, a 3 and a 4. There is a point of no return when making turns. You can smoosh everything together and then not get a lot of puff.

[cape chef]

Originally Posted by thebighat

I don't know about the lower protein thing,

High protein flours are higher in glutens, hence used for breads.

The lower protein flours (pastry and cake) develop less gluten when worked so the dough is tender.I haven't seen bread flour used in rolled in doughs.

[thebighat]

I must have misspoke myself. I do know something about the lower protein flours, and I know I wouldn't use them for puff dough.

More on what I know about puff dough.....