Funky, fruity, starters.

[deltadoc]

After I asked the question about the concord grapes I started wondering if the reason one always seems to see Red Grapes specified is that the concord grapes might leach out too much purple color, thus coloring the resultant bread.

In that vein, I'm surprised that white grapes aren't specified since they are used to make white wine.

Anyway, I don't mind eating purple bread, and then I will report back and we'll all know!

tx,
doc

[Mezzaluna]

How did it turn out, Doc?

[deltadoc]

Hi Mezzaluna!

Good to hear from you again! Ah, I just got the concord grapes today. Wife is out getting some unbleached flour, and I've thrown out all the starters that I tried with the rinsed red grapes and bleached flour. So, I will make the bread in approximately 1-2 weeks from now, and will report back!

doc

[deltadoc]

Well, it's day 4 and I'm a little worried. I put 1 lb 2oz of beautiful concord grapes which were devined and never rinsed into a cheesecloth tied sack, squished them with a meat pounder, and put them in the flour/water slurry (4 cups water (Everpure filtered water - no chlorine) and 1 lb 3 oz of organic unbleached flour) on Saturday morning.

Stirred it up real good, covered it with Saran wrap, and kept it in a room that is pretty constant 74 -76 F. I've shaken the jar daily.

There appears to be little or no activity. With the bleached flour/rinsed red grapes, by this point there was at least bubbles on the surface.

These grapes were far juicier than the red grapes. The flour/water mixture has a slight purple hue.

This is becoming quite challenging!

doc

[KyleW]

Little activity is normal for this point in the Sliverton process. At this stage mine looked pretty gnarly.

http://www.kyleskitchen.net/day_5.htm

[deltadoc]

KyleW,

Let's see now. I'm on day 7. When should I remove the bag of grapes?

tx,
doc

[KyleW]

I suppose it depends on the level of activity. Silverton leaves it in until day 10. If your culture is really active you would probably be safe taking it out and beginning regular feedings.

[deltadoc]

Probably should leave it in. There appears little or no activity of any sort. During the course of a day, it separates into the flour slurry on the bottom of the glass jar, and the highly purple liquid on top.

I shake it daily, and apparently I'm not supposed to start feeding it regularly until day 10.

The room varies from 70-75 now that cooler weather is setting into Minnesota.

When I take off the lid, it smells very grape juicy, with no hint of sourness yet.

No froth that I can detect. The saran wrap this morning was just ever so slightly puffed out a little. So at least some modicum of CO2 generation must be taking place, I'm hoping.

Thanks again for sticking with me through this process, KyleW!

doc

[deltadoc]

It's now day 11, and I fed the starter just unbleached flour (8oz) last night, because there already is so much water/juice in the jar I didn't think it needed more moisture.

Looked this morning, and there was a few bubbles on the surface, but not very many.

doc

[deltadoc]

Well, I'm twenty days into this concord grape starter, and I think this weekend, I'm gonna dump the whole thing out the back yard.

The only reason it's "grown" is because I keep putting more unbleached flour into it, and water. Water is from the tap, but goes through an Everpure filter system (not reverse-osmosis).

The gallon glass jar is almost full now with a lightly purple thickish mush. I could count any bubbles on one hand.

I really hate to give up, but I don't see much reason to continue with this experiment.

If ya gots any ideas, speak up now!

doc

[KyleW]

I haven't forsaken you I did go back to work and have been adjusting to life w/job.

I'm with you. I'm not one to bail out on things but you reach a point....

Also, I'm not a big fan of the whole grape thing either. You just don;t need to mess with them. Peter Reinhart's formula for Crust & Crumb is much more manageable and you can be baking bread in a week.

Here it is: Crust & Crumb Starter

[deltadoc]

KyleW,
Thanks for your last post and the link. After about 6 weeks and two attempts to do the grape thing, I think your signature line is very relevant. A very thin line between hobby and mental illness, and to put more energy into this would be "crossing the line!"

So, we'll try crust and crumb starter next.

You're in NYC? I haven't been there since the '80's, but often think about the 400 Club (i think it was called) near the Holiday Inn on what was it 57th street? They had the best dxxx pastrami sandwiches I've ever eaten to this day!

Had a booth at Columbus Center in the National Fashion and Boutique Show several times.

sorry, am rambling,

thanks again,
doc

[KyleW]

I'll have to look for the 400 Club. The Colliseum, at Columbus Circle, doesn't exist any more. It has been replaced by a monster complex of stores, restaurants, offices and apartments. Lots of top chefs have places there and the biggest Williams-Sonoma I've ever seen is there too. The enitre "basement" is a WholeFoods store. It's the most amazing supermarket I've ever seen.

[deltadoc]

This reply is going to be really off-topic, but I hope the group will tolerate this excursion!

Man, I'm sitting here totally knocked out to think that all that was isn't there anymore. Sounds like a dynamite "mall".

But everytime I think of NYC, I think of 4 things:

1. The 400 club pastrami sandwiches
2. The National Fashion and Boutique Show in Columbus Center
3. The High Times Party I got invited to
4. The fact that I stood in the window of the observation floor of the World Trade Center looking down on the black granite (?) fountain that looked about the size of a half-dollar from that way up high. One time I was there, some guy walked a tightrope stretched between the two WTC's. You're standing in that window looking down through clouds and at the other WTC, and thinking "How could anyone possibly think of walking across a rope between the two buildings without a balancing bar?!?!?" "or a parachute!"

One other time I was there, some guy had some kind of patented thermos bottle stoppers on his hands and feet, and crawled up the side of one of the WTC's! Ah man, my stomach leaves me just thinking about it.

One other time I was out there, some guy hang-glided off the top of one of the WTC's. It seemed everytime I got out that way, something spectacular happened!

And now I think, where I stood is thin air right now. I won't go further with the other thoughts I have about this all, but offer my condolences to all of NYC for the tragedy that occurred there.

On a lighter side, I have a cousin who is head of the Drama research department of the big library in Manhattan. His name is Rod, and if you ever run into him, say "Hey" for me!

doc