What is considered a normal "rise" ?

[Bond]

When baking dinner rolls (using a bread recipe)- 75% of the time I wind up with a dough that doubles before baking. The other 25% of the time - the dough TRIPLES in volume. I am trying to find out why that is. I have been beating my brains out on this. I repeat the same exact procedure over and over again and don't don't understand how one batch can double and another one can triple. Has anyone else ever have this happen to them? Exactly what is "normal"? Am I doing something wrong since it doesn't triple every time or am I just lucky and should just learn to accept it and be happy when it happens.

Steve

[sucrechef]

Normal is usually double. You say that you are repeating exactly the same method every time. Things to consider:
1.) Are you measuring all ingredients EXACTLY?
2.) Is the temperature the same?
3.) Is the humidity level the same?
4.) Are youkneading to exactly the same level of gluten development?

Each of these factors could play a part in your discrepancies.

[Bond]

To the best my ability- I am doing everything the same. I am by no means a pro at this. I've only made about 30 batches so far. I had some total failures in the beginning. One of the problems was - I more or less used my finger to judge the water temp for the yeast .(lol) But I have refined the techique since then and am very satisfied with the results including the occasional- mysterious- "Super Rise". I just thought perhaps someone here may have had this happen to them and could give me an explaination. I honestly didn't what was considered "normal". If the "Super Rise" was normal or if the doubling was normal. There just has to be an X factor to explain it and perhaps in time- I'll figure it out on my own.

Thanks

Steve

[KyleW]

While you should be able to get reasonably predictable results, a 50% variation is a little much. Braed baking is the control of a living breathing thing. As such you will always have slight variations in results.

As sucrechef pointed out, there are a number of variables that will effect your bread. Are you weighing your ingredients?

[Bond]

No- I don't weigh my ingrediants. I honestly don't think that's the problem. When I add the yeast- I can pretty much tell how it's going to come out just by the texture of the dough. It just seems so light and airy. I just thought a a bigger rise would be better even if you can't really taste the difference. It sure looks impressive though to see the dough get huge like that.

Steve

[mudbug]

The key to baking is measuring.

There is absolutely no way for any of us to help you if you are not measuring your ingredients. The difference between half a teaspoon truly can make a large difference.

In fact, if you had been measuring your ingredients during your 30 tries, I highly doubt you'd be asking the question at all, much less "beating your brains out" trying to figure it out. You can't figure something out if you don't keep records of exactly what you've done.

Exactly what type of flour are you using? unbleached? self-rising? whole grain? all-purpose? other?

Exactly what type of yeast are you using? cake? rapid rise? bread machine? other?

Are you adding salt? or sugar?

Try measuring, it won't add more than a minute or two of time and will also provide a scientific method by which you and we can determine what is going on. Measure the quantity/weight of ingredients. Measure the temperature of the water you proof the yeast in. If you are not proofing, then you need to explain exactly the recipe you are using and what order of steps you are using. Measure the air temperature in the room you are allowing the dough to raise. If you can, measure the humidity as well.

Speed in raising dough may be fun to witness, but experienced bakers know that this is not the secret to quality product. The ideal rise, depending on the type of bread is minimal yeast and a long rise in a cooler temp. The longer the dough is allowed to rise, the more flavor is developed.

Be precise.

Mudbug,Sucrechef and KyleW have pretty much covered everything here with temp IMHO being the biggest factor . As far as consistency goes which is what you seem to be having a problem with I would suggest going out and buying a quality 2 lb kitchen scale(Edlund is a good one)and a quality instant read thermometer(Taylor is the best I've used) to get you started on the road to consistency !
Also start logging your ingredient lists,amounts,procedures and results in order to isolate your problem !! Do you have any bread cookbooks ? Peter Reinhart,Beth Hensperger(has a bread machine cookbook too)Jeffrey Hamelman and Rose Levy Beranbaum are some of the good ones and their books don't just have recipes there is a wealth of tutorial info in them to explain all the ins and outs and science of bread baking. Understanding why you do what you do and why things happen the way they do is important!
I think owning a bread machine will also help . I use mine to do just about all my kneading before hand and this has also helped with consistency ! I just remove it after using the dough cycle and bake my sandwich loaves in pans on a baking stone and I use it for all my dinner rolls too. Bread baking has enough variables as it is even if you do everything systematically and by the letter without looking for more trouble !
I think that you should bake your bread or rolls when the rise is still un the upswing(like about 85%). If you wait 'till your bread has completely risen it is in effect over proofed and will have no where to go once in the oven. These books will also explain the technique of slashing and it's value !
Have you ever used instant yeast (Saf). This will also help you with your consistency because it eliminates the whole soaking step since with this product you just add it directly to the flour. If you have any flour that you are still using that is over a year old I would replace it ! And also buy your self along with the instant read thermometer an oven thermometer to check the accuracy of the internal temperature of you oven . Some home ovens can be off high or low by as much as 50%. This will have a definite impact on your bread's oven spring ! And last but not least a baking stone would be the ultimate purchase to get you on your way to a quality consistent product!! Good luck!