How long should my pizza dough take to rise?

[rsilvergun]

Hi all, trying to learn to cook, and I picked pizza for my first 'real' food. I keep messing up the dough, though (there's a pun there somewhere...). Anyway, it comes up chewy and glumpy, instead of bread-like. My yeast seems to be proofing OK (I get the tan color on top). I'm not using the quick type yeast since the recipe doesn't call for it. I've been letting it rise for 60 to 90 minutes at a time and then chilling the dough balls. I have noticed the balls continue to rise after I put them in the fridge even after an hour and a half of rising, but all the recipes I have say 40 minutes to an hour, so I figured 90 would be plenty. I use all purpose white flour (unbleached, the organic brand Safeway Stores is carrying) and all purpose wheat flour. The recipe I was following is from here: BillyReisinger.com :: The Ridiculously Thorough Guide to Making Your Own Pizza. I'm in Arizona, but it's not particularly hot, or humid right now. I've been using a pizza stone, but it seems like it's cooking the bottom of the crust too fast, so I'm going to try a pizza screen too soon, but I wanted to get the dough right first. Should I just let it rise more, am I not kneeding it enough? I know I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know what

[Suzanne]

Maybe it's your oven/heat level? I'm pretty much a pizza novice myself, so I'm putting a copy of this question on the Baking board.

[Chad Aaland]

You may be letting it proof too long. Also, try using the screen WITH the stone. How does the cheese and toppings come out when you do it? Is the cheese melted fully? If not, your heat may be too low. Too low of a heat won't properly cook the toppings and because of that you have to leave the pizza in longer...thus burning the bottom. I don't do pizza, but I'm pretty sure the pizza oven at the pizza place in my hotel is right around 7-800?

[HeavyMetal Chef]

how are you mixing it? You could be over mixing it or over proofing it. When it proofs it should be double in size and covered (so it doesn't get a crust exterior). Keep it room temp. If you are doing a 6 oz to a 12 oz portion of dough it should be about an hour to proof....message me back please I like to solve questions.

[BettyR]

I make my pizza dough the day before I plan to have pizza for supper.
(the recipe that I use is at the bottom of the page)

I just put the warm water in my Kitchen Aid mixer bowl, add the sugar salt and oil stirring to dissolve all the ingredients. Then add two cups of the flour and the yeast and beat with the paddle attachment until I have a nice sticky dough.

Remove the paddle and attach the dough hook put in the rest of the flour and kneaded on the #2 setting for 15 minutes.

If you have a bread machine just put everything in the bread machine and put it on the dough setting; I don’t have one.

Removed the dough ball, oil it well, put it in a fairly large Tupperware container and stick it in the frig. Before you go to bed check the container that the dough is in, open it to release the gases that have built up inside or during the night enough pressure will build up to blow the lid off and your dough will dry out. (Voice of experience)

The next day, two hours before you plan to cook your pizza, take the dough out of the frig. Spray your counter with oil, divide your dough into portions and roll them into balls. Spray the balls with oil and cover them with plastic wrap and let them sit on the counter at room temp for 2 hours.

At the end of the two hours the balls will have risen and the dough will be airy and easy to work with. Place the dough of a greased pizza pan and pat it out to the size and shape that you want it. Then take a piece of parchment paper and lay it down on top of the dough and pat it down onto the dough. Then turn the pizza pan over and gently remove the dough from the pan so that the dough is now sitting on the parchment paper.

I don't have a pizza stone so I move one of my oven racks to the lowest setting inside the oven, top my pizza and cook it directly on the oven rack on the parchment paper. I have to turn the pizza several times while it's cooking so that it cooks evenly. You can reach into the oven with your bare hands and turn the parchment paper, I don't know why but it doesn't get hot.

I move the pizza to and from the oven with a cookie sheet that doesn't have any sides.

Try it again I think you will be surprised at how easy it is.
Betty

Jays Signature Pizza Crust
Posted 06-22-2006 by Chefkel

*Note posted by Chefkel: This recipe yields a crust that is soft and doughy on the inside and slightly crusty on the outside. Cover it with your favorite sauce and topping to make a delicious pizza.

INGREDIENTS:

1 1/2 cups warm water (110 degrees F/45 degrees C)
1/2-teaspoon brown sugar
1-teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons olive oil
3 1/3 cups all-purpose flour
2 1/4 teaspoons instant yeast

DIRECTIONS:
Put ingredients into bread machine in the order listed, select the dough cycle and proceed from there to make your pizza.

[Jock]

Originally Posted by rsilvergun

Hi all, trying to learn to cook, and I picked pizza for my first 'real' food.

Yeah, how hard can this be, right? Once you understand yeasted doughs, not so hard but it is not something you can easily modify. If you are sure your recipe is a good one from a reliable source (you may want to post it so we can all see what you are working from) follow it to the letter. If it says to let it rise for 40 minutes to an hour, let it rise from 40 minutes to an hour. More than that and it will over proof; the yeast runs out of food (sugar formed by the chemical reactions going on in the dough) and starts to eat itself. The result is a soggy, bubbly mess. Check for the correct amount of proofing by gently poking the dough with your finger. It should bounce back about half way. If it springs back all the way (or nearly) it is not ready yet. If it doesn't spring back at all it is overproofed. It is better to do it this way than looking at the clock. The ambient temperature will paly a significant roll in determining how long to let the dough rise. The warmer it is the shorter the rising time. Conversely, the colder it is (like in the fridge) the longer the time. A dough proofed on the counter top at room temp will continue to rise in the fridge because it takes quite some time for the dough to chill enough to slow down the process.

Bakers don't use recipes, they use formulae. It is a very precise process. If I have one piece of advice for novice bakers it is this - Don't mess with the formula!

Jock

[BettyR]

Originally Posted by Jock

Yeah, how hard can this be, right? Once you understand yeasted doughs, not so hard but it is not something you can easily modify.
Jock

Actually it wasn't all that hard, most of the method that I used comes from this book. The Bread Baker's Apprentice: Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Bread by Peter Reinhart and Ron Manville.

I'm just learning to make bread and I haven't had the book for very long; the "formulas" that he uses in this book are still a little too complex for me to understand; so I opted for something a little simpler. That recipe I posted above was from another forum and had been used by several people there with great success.

I had to do a little improvising since there was no way in Haydees that I was going to be able to pull and toss the dough like the book describes and I also had to improvise with the baking because I don't have a stone hearth or even a pizza stone.

It isn't that hard, if I can do it anyone can!!!!
Betty

[rsilvergun]

Thanks for the great replies, I'm gonna give it another run this weekend when I have more time (too much going on to cook pizza during the week ). The recipie I was following is this:

"

This recipe will make enough dough for 2 large pizzas, 1 large pizza and two small pizzas, or 3 medium pizzas.

* 1 1/2 Cups - Warm Water (not hot!)
* 2 Tbsp. - Sugar
* 1 Envelope - Active Dry Yeast (not the quick kind)
* 2 Tsp. - Salt
* 4 Tbsp. - Olive Oil
* 4 Cups - Flour (whole wheat or all-purpose for thinner dough; bread flour for thicker, chewier dough)

Combine the water, sugar, and yeast packet in a large (large!) bowl. Allow the yeast to "proof" (show that it is alive) by letting it sit for 10 minutes. If you see a tan-colored foam form at the top, you're in business. If not, go back to the store and buy some fresh yeast... there is no point in continuing.

Now, add the salt and the olive oil. Next, add one cup of flour at a time, using a whisk, large fork, or hard spatula to thoroughly combine the mixture.

After you have added all 4 cups of flour, the kneading begins. To knead, use your hands to fold the dough ball in half over and over. Use your palm to smash the ball together, then fold it in half and smash it together again. If the ball becomes sticky, add a little more flour. The ball should not stick to the side of the bowl, but it should not be dry and cracking, either.

Dough BallOnce you have kneaded the dough for about 5 minutes, drizzle a little oil over it and place it in a new, clean bowl. Spread the oil over it by using your hands. Cover this bowl with plastic wrap or a wet towel, and place it in a warm place (such as an unlit oven or sunny countertop). The dough will now rise as the yeast produces carbon dioxide; this and the alcohols produced by the yeast will improve the texture, flavor, and elasticity of the dough. You will need to leave the dough in this place until it nearly doubles in size, which should be about 40 minutes to an hour.

"

I followed it pretty closely, as far as I could tell. Thinking back, my dough was hard to work, and kept stretching back into a smaller shape as I tried to get it rolled out, so I'm thinking I'm not using enough water. I'm using the cheap King Arthur's brand wheat flour, and I tried the all purpose organic flour from my local Safeway as well.

[BettyR]

Originally Posted by rsilvergun

Thinking back, my dough was hard to work, and kept stretching back into a smaller shape as I tried to get it rolled out, so I'm thinking I'm not using enough water. I'm using the cheap King Arthur's brand wheat flour, and I tried the all purpose organic flour from my local Safeway as well.

I was reading through the pizza part of the book again today and it says if the dough is hard to work with and doesn't want to stretch out easily to let it rest some more so that the gluten will relax. You must not be letting it rise enough; if you let it rise enough it will get all light and fluffy and you can pat it out fairly easily.

As for the flour I just use whatever is the cheapest, the store brand or whatever is on sale. I’m afraid that my palate too unsophisticated to distinguish any real difference in the taste of the expensive flour and the WalMart brand.
Betty

[Jock]

Originally Posted by rsilvergun

Thanks for the great replies, I'm gonna give it another run this weekend when I have more time (too much going on to cook pizza during the week ). The recipie I was following is this:

"

This recipe will make enough dough for 2 large pizzas, 1 large pizza and two small pizzas, or 3 medium pizzas.

* 1 1/2 Cups - Warm Water (not hot!)
* 2 Tbsp. - Sugar
* 1 Envelope - Active Dry Yeast (not the quick kind)
* 2 Tsp. - Salt
* 4 Tbsp. - Olive Oil
* 4 Cups - Flour (whole wheat or all-purpose for thinner dough; bread flour for thicker, chewier dough)

Combine the water, sugar, and yeast packet in a large (large!) bowl. Allow the yeast to "proof" (show that it is alive) by letting it sit for 10 minutes. If you see a tan-colored foam form at the top, you're in business. If not, go back to the store and buy some fresh yeast... there is no point in continuing.

Now, add the salt and the olive oil. Next, add one cup of flour at a time, using a whisk, large fork, or hard spatula to thoroughly combine the mixture.

After you have added all 4 cups of flour, the kneading begins. To knead, use your hands to fold the dough ball in half over and over. Use your palm to smash the ball together, then fold it in half and smash it together again. If the ball becomes sticky, add a little more flour. The ball should not stick to the side of the bowl, but it should not be dry and cracking, either.

Dough BallOnce you have kneaded the dough for about 5 minutes, drizzle a little oil over it and place it in a new, clean bowl. Spread the oil over it by using your hands. Cover this bowl with plastic wrap or a wet towel, and place it in a warm place (such as an unlit oven or sunny countertop). The dough will now rise as the yeast produces carbon dioxide; this and the alcohols produced by the yeast will improve the texture, flavor, and elasticity of the dough. You will need to leave the dough in this place until it nearly doubles in size, which should be about 40 minutes to an hour.

"

I followed it pretty closely, as far as I could tell. Thinking back, my dough was hard to work, and kept stretching back into a smaller shape as I tried to get it rolled out, so I'm thinking I'm not using enough water. I'm using the cheap King Arthur's brand wheat flour, and I tried the all purpose organic flour from my local Safeway as well.

OK, a copule of things occur to me.

First of all, how are you measuring your flour? If it is too compacted in the measuring cup you will end up with more than you need resulting in a dry dough. You should scoop the flour from its container into the measuring cup with a spoon until it mounds over the rim. Then without tapping the cup measure or patting the flour down at all scrape the excess flour off with a staright edged spatula or something similar.

But for bread baking the amount of flour given in the recipe is really more of a guideline. It is what the dough feels and looks like that matters. The actual amount of flour you end up using may vary quite a bit from the recipe because of factors such as the age of the flour, the relative humidity from one day to the next and a bunch of other things. So, the trick is to add enough flour that the dough looks and feels right.

And what exactly is "right"? Well, that's a bit of a moving target and hard to pin down. As a beginning guideline I would say it should hold together well, be a bit tacky but not sticky. As you are kneading the dough, look for a thickish layer of it on the heel of your hand. That's too wet - add a TBS or so of flour. If it looks and feels too dry it probably is. Adding more liquid at this point is very tricky and can turn out messy. The best plan is to start kneading slightly wet and add a pinch of flour at a time till it is just right.

I would knead the dough on the bech and not in the bowl wher it is too restrictive. Turn your dough out on to a board where you can have room to move it about.

As with rising time don't use the clock to determine when it is kneaded enough. That too is judged by feel and looks. It should be smooth and look satiny and bounce back vigorously when you poke it with your finger. You can also try what is called the "window pane test". Take a cherry sized piece of dough and with well floured fingers gently tease the dough out as if you were making a mini pizza. When the dough is kneaded enough you will be able to stretch it so thin you can see through it without it tearing. If it tears too easily, knead some more.

If you are going to refrigerate the dough (and that's not a bad thing to do) do it when you have oiled it and put it in the covered bowl to rise. It will rise slower than on the counter top but the longer rising time will allow the flour to give up more of it's complex flavors. As a matter of fact, if you reduce the yeast to 1 tsp instead of the whole packet you can let the dough rise overnight in the fridge. You will be amazed at the complexity of flavors in the crust that you get doing this.

One last thing - the sugar!!! 2 TBS??? that must make for a very sweet dough. It's only to get the yeast started and I wouldn't use more than a teaspoon if at all. Most supermarket flours have an ingredient called barley malt (look for it on the ingredient list on the bag of flour.) The malt is basically a sugar and is added as a yeast food. All that sugar may be what's causing the bottom of the crust to brown prematurely as well.

Jock