Help for flat cookies?

[Kimmie]

Your teachers at school might know the answer Isaac. I haven't a clue! This is based on Alice Medrich and she simply says:

I find that shortbread, chocolate chip, and oatmeal cookies are best when butter is melted completely and simply stirred with the sugar...

I stir in the four/baking soda mixture just until all of the dry ingredients are moistened. NO MORE. Let the mixture cool down before adding chocolate chips and/or nuts.

She further adds that chilling the dough for at least 2 hours, if not overnight, makes a better tasting cookie with a more tender and crunchier crumb than baking immediately.

The book is Cookies and Brownies by Alice Medrich.

[nancya]

Iza, a balance between the chocolate and the dough? I go by the theory that if the dough is still holding together, there isn't enough chocolate chips in it. However, I do try to balance the nuts and the chips.

[W.DeBord]

My old favorite c.c cookie dough did call for melted/cooled butter. I loved it for years, then when I started working at my last job for some reason it didn't turn out the same. So I switched recipes. I would love to know the tech. reasons for the melted butter...for some reason I think the problems I encountered had more to do with the brown sugar I was getting then the butter and whether it was melted or not.

For instance (just a side note) I once had a case of brown sugar NO ONE in the whole kitchen could get to melt in a pan with butter (bananas foster) 5 different people and we each tryed a couple different ways (with-out butter, high heat, etc...) nothing could get it to melt down!

Anyway I think the melted butter is about creaming it with the sugars...something about how the sugars dissolve and whip, is my guess.

Which brings me to your point Isaac, I don't think less mixing has a effect either. I've tried that and not seen different results with less beating or no whipping of butter and sugars. I've also chilled doughs and had nice results (just about every book reccomends this now) then had days where I didn't have time to chill the same recipe and gotten exactly the same product either way.

It has to be in the right proportions/recipe from the beginning, technique isn't the answer.....can't be, because theres too many ways to make them successfully. Agreed, toasting your nuts also makes a MUCH better cookie....I also think a combo of soda and powder works best in a c.c. cookie. I can't wait for "BakeWise" to come out.

I do have Alice M.s' cookie book. I only made a couple items from it and was dissapointed with them so I haven't tried her c.c. cookie yet. Have any of you tried anything from Rosies' cookbooks (Rosies Bakery, not Oprahs' rosie)? I'd have to look up the exact title, but she has several, one on cookies the other has cakes too. Anyway SHE has some fabulous cookie recipes, big time!!! As well as Mrs. Fields, some of hers are great (not all, though)!

Ahh...I see you've mentioned my own topic on chocolate chip cookies here, Kimmie. I hope these help you out, Cate. Welcome to Cheftalk too!

[ September 09, 2001: Message edited by: Afra ]

[Kimmie]

Actually, Afra, I linked up to share my recipe that happened to be part of your thread.

[Isa]

I'll have to try your recipe Kimmie, with all this talk about chocolate chips cookies I've develop a craving for them.
Nancy we don't see cookies the same way. Would you believe I actually cut down on the quantity of chocolate....


Cookwise by Sherry O. Coorriher has an interesting chapter on cookies. Here’s an excerpt on fat in cookies:

How the fat melts makes a big difference in the cookies. Butter is as hard as a rock at one temperature. Then, only slightly warmer, it is soft and just a little warmer it melts. If you use a fat like butter that melts over a narrow temperature range, shortly after the cookies go into a hot oven the butter will melt and the cookies will spread.

On the other hand, shortening stays the same texture over a wide temperature range. Cookies made with shortening or part butter part shortening do not spread as much as all-butter cookies. Some of the fake fats and spreads that contain gums and starch remain the same consistency regardless of temperature. The cookie stays exactly as you placed it on the baking sheet - no spread.

This is very nice but shortening cookies? I don’t think so.

[panini]

proceedure is important. wet to dry. We do a triple nut and chocolate cookie. dark,white,milk choco. chunks. pecans, walnuts and macadamia nuts. We press out and spread ours so that the chunks and nuts stand out. We do have one customer that likes the puff look, for him we just toss the choco and nuts in flour, he presses but does not spread. Retarding is the most important thing in baking any cookie. Cookies must go in the oven at the same temp. to get consistancy.

Wow!
thanks for all the responses.
It's comforting to know that I'm not the only one whose ever had this issue!
Well...I tried "The Puffy" on Saturday - it is a puffy cookie! But, as Iza noted, a shortnening cookie leaves something to be desired in the mouthfeel category. It does have a higher proportion of baking powder than some others do as well.
I do have both of Rosie's cookie books (No Holds Barred...). I grew up in Boston and was quite a regular at Rosie's shops - she makes them much better than I've ever been able to. The cookies from her books are about the flattest I've tried (each batch uses 2.5 to 3 sticks of butter). Good flavor, but I miss having that bite. Maybe I'll try adding a bit of extra flour & powder to one of Rosie's and let you know what happens.

Thanks to all!
cate

[W.DeBord]

Her soho globs are a favorite, boy do I wish I could taste her work in person, lucky you!

What about 1/2 butter 1/2 shortening????

Hope you'll be back with more results?!

[bakerbebe]

Wendy ~ I know you have tried and liked several of Mrs. Field's recipes. My mom bought a lot of her cookbook's in the 90's and never used them (now they are sitting on my shelf). I was wondering which cookie recipes you love -- maybe I'll check some of them out. I have had a few disappointments from her cookbooks and haven't opened them in a while. But if you have some favorites and could point me in the right direction . . .
thanks ~~

[W.DeBord]

I'll tell your what my result were, but you have to promise to share with me what items you made before and liked or disliked to save me time too....o.k.?

I worked mainly from her "Great American Desserts" book. I only worked a couple recipes from any of her other books. I also never had any luck with any of the recipes credited to her that involved ground oatmeal in her c.c cookies.

Blueberry cream cheese tart, good.
Cherry pie, good, add almond extract.
New york-style cheesecake, excellent!
White choc. chunk cheesecake, pretty good.
Butterscotch cheesecake, excellent!
Banana pudding, very good.
Raspberry cream jelly roll, cake is Excellent, great technique (filling doesn't hold)!
Three-fruit pandowdy, excellent!
Chocolate carmel oat brownies, Excellent!
Butterscotch brownies, excellent.
Peanut butter mississippi mud bars, excellent!!
Lemon-lime squares, didn't work.
Chewy toffee cookies, very good.
Nutty mocha cookies, very good.
Cinnamon swirl coffee cake, excellent!
Creamy cheese-filled coffee cake, very good.
Debbies pound cake, good.
White choc. bundt cake, excellent.

[bakerbebe]

Thanks Wendy. That will help narrow down which ones I will try.
From her cookbook "Cookie Favorites" I tried the Blue Ribbon Chocolate Chip Cookies (this was so long ago but I remember them being good)
Double Rich Chocolate Cookies (great the *first* day you make them and then they tend to get dry-- I dipped half the cookie in white chocolate)
Soft and Chewy Peanut Butter Cookies (okay, nothing special)
Super Fudge Brownies (really good -- fudgy and thick)
From the "I Love Chocolate" Cookbook:
Fudgy Studded Buttercream Cake (Horrid!! I made this and it tasted awful. It calls for 2 1/2 cups unsweetened cocoa in the cake batter -- yuck!)
The Caramel Fudge Mac Tart looked good, but I haven't tried it yet
As you see, I haven't made my way through them yet. I've just tried a few recipes. I wonder if the reason why Mrs. Field's cookbooks don't have more appeal is the layout and lack of good photography/presentation of the desserts?? My husband was looking through them and said "the pictures are so cheesy!!!". I know they are aimed at the home baker and they just don't have that "sophisticated" look. I will have to try more of the recipes. Thanks for your input!

[W.DeBord]

Thanks bakerbebe. In some respects I find her food styling to be more honest than most books.

I try to look past the foodstyling, I look at the photo to check texture mostly. What I was doing at my last job (everything had to be pre-sliced) forced me to re-interpet the presentation of every dessert (except individual ala carte items). It actually helped me by forcing me to come up with my own ideas (but it was frustrating at first). It also taught me to take out different components that I liked from a recipe and borrow them into my own creations.

But I have to admit I much prefer a book with nice photos and avoid ones with-out any. Actually I finally found Joseph Amendola's book MBrown has mentioned several times and I didn't buy it because it didn't have any photos.

[bakerbebe]

Yeah, I know what you mean. There are some gorgeous books with gorgeous photos -- but if the recipes don't taste as good as they look, the book is just fluff.
But I am still a sucker for gorgeous photography! I think the photographer Lisa Hubbard who often photographs for Gourmet and MSL is so talented!! Her photos and presentation of food just make you want to run out and buy all the ingredeints so you can make whatever is in the picture.
But yeah, I guess it's best to not judge a book by it's cover (literally, in this case).
As you know, I'm not pro -- I just bake as a hobby -- but I like to try and create desserts that look like they were done by a pro. But when it comes to cookies, brownies, etc like in Mrs. Field's -- all I care about is the taste/texture.

[isaac]

anyone ever read the book called "Got Milk"? i wanted to buy this book but i am not sure about it. advise?