When referring to French bread what does the term "batard" refer to?

[chefjohnpaul]

Bradchef,

You da man! Thanks so much. Now tell me, with sauce batard, is it because it had no legitimate 'mother sauce' base, or was it a sauce that was manipulated into another. It was just water, roux, lemon, butter, and seasoning, correct?



[This message has been edited by chefjohnpaul (edited 12-14-2000).]

[Nick.Shu]

personally, i could not tell you the actual reason why a batard is called so - however, a smaller version of the bagette is not the batard, but called a ficelle, - a batard is more like a very squat football with a flat top and bottom.

But like i said, i couldnt really tell you why a batard is so, but i will endeavour to find out.

[chefjohnpaul]

Nick.Shu

Now our baker says the batard loaves he's had are the shape you've described and the yeast was allowed to go a little longer. He said it was close in texture to a ciabatta loaf. What say you Nick.Shu?

(Wow, I can't believe the response to this question!)

[Isa]

A ficelle is a thinner version of the baguette. It has the same lenght or just about. A batard is wider and shorther.

[Nick.Shu]

im just going off memories of a job that i had about 13 years ago - the batard that this particular establishment had used your standard french bread recipe. Along with these loaves, there were others using the white french bread recipe, i.e. Epis, rognons, etc. However, i do believe that there are "batards" made from wholemeal and possibly rye breads.

With reference to ciabatta, i think, that the batards are lighter in texture to ciabatta, due to the lighter crust of the batard - but i can check.

[This message has been edited by Nick.Shu (edited 12-18-2000).]

[chefjohnpaul]

Nick.Shu

The batards our baker has had at two different places both had the nature of ciabatta in that the yeast was really allowed to develop. But regardless of the rising, or crumb, or anything else are we not mainly talking about 'batard' being primarily a shape of the loaf?

[Nick.Shu]

going on what i remember, there was base french bread recipe made for production and pretty much all off the bread was made from this one base - my assumption, and i shall say that until i confirm this, is that: yes batard would refer to the shape rather than any other production technique.

Unfortunately, my main reference is closed until feb, but i can check other sources and i will try to get back to you.