When referring to French bread what does the term "batard" refer to?

[chefjohnpaul]

What does "batard" mean in terms of French bread?

The culinary therm batarde with means *******
is a traditional white loaf a little larger then a bagguette
capechef

[chefjohnpaul]

Originally posted by bradchef:
The culinary therm batarde with means *******
is a traditional white loaf a little larger then a bagguette
capechef

Thanks for the response, being a cuisine chef I was familiar with classical sauce batard and its having no legitimat mother sauce base thus an illigitimate sauce and thus the name. But I didn't know what the bread term referred to. Thanks.

P.S.When you mean larger do you mean wider or longer. The parbaked ones we were considering from SYSCO for our institutional service were only 18" long and our baker thought batard had to do with the texture of the crumb, any comments on this?



[This message has been edited by chefjohnpaul (edited 12-11-2000).]

[cape chef]

chefJohnpaul,the batarde has nothing to do with the crumb. Please don't tell your baker I said this!! As in the sauce you referred to It is based on something familiar then modified. The batarde is a little longer and if you hold a bagguette end to end and gently squeeze like a accordion to widen the middle, that is what a Batarde looks like
cc

[chefjohnpaul]

So is the batard a little longer or a little wider?

[cape chef]

johnpaul, I just visited your web site. Very nice.So why are you so concerned with the size of a batarde?
Or is this only a test?
cc

[chefjohnpaul]

So why are you so concerned with the size of a batarde?

Well, the Food Manager of our operation got a description from SYSCO of par baked batarde loaves that really didn't explain what made them a batarde loaf, so the question was what defined a loaf as 'batarde.
I knew the sauce definition but not the bread definition, and our baker believed it had to do with the crumb and the yeast, and the F&B conjectured that it was made from a fresh start of yeast and not from a 'mother batch' left over from the last batch, so we took our little discussion and opened it to the ChefTalk experts. The rest is history.

So if I got it straight a batarde loaf is a little shorter and a little wider than a baguette, correct? Is there any reason for the illigitimate reference?

I'm glad you enjoyed the site. Any suggestions?

Yes a batard is shorter than a baguette and fatter in the middle with tapered ends. Kind of like a torpedo. And there is no difference in the crumb. I use the same formula that I use for baguette or other shaped french breads

Go, BigD. He is exactly correct. The French buy different shapes of bread for different purposes. A batarde differs from a baguette only in shape. Then there are boules and more other things than we can imagine.
The best education for this is to buy a cheap winter fare to Paris and visit bakeries. Once you see the traditional shapes, you know what the deal is. With all the fou-fou food out there now, I am more and more coming to embrace tradition.
Eat the best. Shop the open air markets.

But mostly, learn.

[Isa]

Bâtard: A bread weighting about half a pound, a bit shorter then the baguette.

[chefjohnpaul]

Excellent, Chefs & Bakers!

But why is it called a "batard"?

Chef, It will not come on the screen because cheftalk has a word screening device. But like the sauce you mentioned before, which is a classic that has been manipulated into something other then what it was originally intended has been bastardized. The same hold true for the Batarde which has been changed from it's classic form to another. classic being the baguette ******* being the batarde
capechef

[cape chef]

Chefjohnpaul, You are correct to assume that sauce batarde is called so because of having no direct relationship to a "mother sauce"
Also I have seen this sauce bound with egg yolks. All the other ingredients are correct
cc

ChefJohnPaul,

Maybe they call it a batard because it is a batard to deal with. Or maybe the guy who first came up with the idea was a batard.

[mudbug]

According to the Paris Bread and Bakery Wordbook:

Bâtard: same weight as a baguette, but shorter and less elegant, made from the squatty end of the rolled out dough.

There are many other definitions you might want to browse: http://www.paris-anglo.com/guide/ent...read_word.html

If you're really interested in the orgin of the word "" you should be able to find something on its etmology in the The Oxford English Dictionary: http://www.oed.com/