what is a japonaise? and other questions...

[m brown]

dude, no biggie.
have a good nights rest.

[Chef David Simpson]

m brown, I got some sleep. But, still want to know where torilla's come from? Some say Mexico and some say Alaska.

[momoreg]

Alaska, really?

[cape chef]

In Spain tortilla means omelet, In Mexico it means a thin, flat,unraised pancake made with cornmeal,flour,salt and water...I would think because of the origin of corn and wheat that tortillas must have come from mexico or Spain.Or somewhere similar
cc

[momoreg]

I wonder which came first, the Spanish or the Mexican version.

[Chef David Simpson]

Well the Native Americans have used the flatbread methed for thoundsands of years, so coming down from Alaska, they might have brought it w/ them.

[thebighat]

What an interesting thread. I was in line for lunch one day and Gronert came by and with his inimitable supercilious tone told the woman next to me was "Out of uniform" because her neckerchief slide was upside down.I also know why he doesn't teach in Providence anymore. Japonaise is hard to find in the books, butI remember it being described, and made, as a nut meringue where the whites were heated before whipping, as opposed to a dacquise, where they are not heated, and which hails from a village or region of France named Dax. But you can't put a name on japonaise the same way.

[breadster]

can anyone clarify the difference between a japonaise, a dacquoise and a jaconde?

they all seem to be almond "infused" meringues to be used as layers between buttercreams etc.

are they used in different applications?

[cape chef]

breadster hi,

I believe that dacquoise doe's not contain whole eggs like a joconde also no butter in a dacquoise but there is in a jocode. so the finished texture and flavor will not be the same. I believe the japenaise has been well documented above.

momoreg,,M brown doe's this sound correct?
This is how I remember making these two items.

cc

[thebighat]

Joconde is whole eggs beaten thick with almond/sugar powder. Then flour and melted butter are folded in. It's used as the sponge backing for ribbon sponge where chocolate cigarette paste is first spread and combed on a silpat which is then frozen. The joconde is then spread on that and baked and allegedly one can then cut the stuff and line rings with it, but it's the stickiest stuff to work with, I find. Anyone know why?It can also be used as a layer in a torte.

[momoreg]

A joconde is nothing like japonaise or dacquoise. To verify my earlier guess, I did manage to locate my stinky old J&W notebook. The japonaise torte consisted of the almond meringue (Swiss, as you had mentioned, bighat), layered with mocha buttercream and whipped cream. The entire cake is finished with mocha buttercream and ground almonds, finished with a marzipan plaque.

A dacquoise is any nut meringue that is layered with buttercream and/ or whipped cream. Therefore, a japonaise torte is a dacquoise.

A joconde is a thin, flexible almond cake. It does contain whipped whites, but it also contains whole eggs, and butter, as cape and bighat have discussed.


I have never had a problem with mine being too sticky. What is your formula, bighat? And what is the final result like?

Thanks to all for making me get my J&W book. I needed a re-education on Japonaise.

[thebighat]

I don't remember where I got this- if it wasn't in class, then it was a Bruce Healy/Paul Bugat book.

1 lb TPT 9 oz almonds 11/4 cup confectioners sugar
3 eggs beaten till light with 1/2 lb of the tpt
common meringe of 3 whites and 2 1/2 tb sugar
1 oz flour sifted onto yolks
then fold merinque into yolks with remaining tpt and 1 1/2 tb butter

I have a feeling I spread the stuff too thin. But if you are making little tortes or whatever in a 3" ring, you don't want the joconde to be 1/2" thick. I find the underside of the stuff is really sticky. I'd like to use it more, but I find that quality very frustrating, especially when I might need 75 plated desserts for a party.

[momoreg]

Even though joconde has the addition of whipped whites, I find that if it is too airy, it is hard to peel off after it's baked. So don't be too gentle when folding in those whites.

I assume that you are using silpat. That seems to work best for me.

Make sure you are not underbaking it.

And worse comes to worse, add another ounce of flour to the mix. That might dry it out a little bit more.