Money and Marketing / Wedding Cakes

[momoreg]

LoriB, would a thread on cake disasters motivate you??

Spoons, great postcard site.

Momoreg,

Sure! Then I wouldn't feel so alone !!! I'll tell you mine, if you'll tell me yours !

I'll start a new thread for disaster stories.......

[lynne]

By the way, Spoons's website for postcards has also been very user-friendly and highly reccommended by innkeepers out there--some can't claim that!

[lynne]

By the way, Spoons's website for postcards has also been very user-friendly and highly reccommended by innkeepers out there--some can't claim that!

Originally posted by palmier:
I especially like it when the hall has a plating charge when you don't use their cake.Who started this malarkey???

At my hotel we started charging a cutting fee because at least half the cakes that came in 'from the outside' would be big headaches for us. Either the deliverer would bring it early and expect us to store it in our walk-in, work around it, and then take it out at the right time, or the cake would just be poorly built and start falling apart there in the dining room and we'd have to attempt to fix it. One of the last straws was a woman whose family wanted to make the cake. IT started falling apart and we later found out they'd been spending three days in one of the hotel rooms working on it. Three days of no refrigeration? No WONDER it was falling apart! And of course then we started worrying about health issues besides.

The way I look at is is that you don't bring your own steak or bottle of wine to a restaurant and expect the cooks and wait staff to deal with it for free and the same would hold for bringing your own cake.



[This message has been edited by Dominique (edited 01-22-2001).]

DOMINIQUE:
Very good point. One that needs further explaining.
Inept people taking your time and getting in your way would be reason to expect compensation. What about us professionals who show up an hour before the reception with a frozen wedding cake, assembled by the pastry chef whom made it,taking none of your time or space. Is it worth the $2.00 to the client to cut the cake?
From the other point of view, the charge makes it very difficult for small, upstarting company to compete. We would need to charge less than the cost of the plating, and them some to get business. It cuts drastically into the profit.
Fortunate for me, and the client, I talk to the catering director and tell them that I will not be a nuisance. Ensuring that storage and set-up are done by me. I then ask for the plate charge to be canceled (or at least reduced).

Palmier, I certainly see your point but I have to admit that from my side of it, I don't care about the competition when people are booking a restaurant in my restaurant. Allowing outside cakes cuts way into OUR profit margin not to mention out of MY pocketbook as I lose my commission. It would be like booking a restaurant for the night and then hiring in your own private caterers and bringing your own alcohol! If a place doesn't have a pastry chef or if for some reason the chef was unable to do what you want I certainly agree that cutting the cake should be an expected part of service (and as the wait staff usually cuts the cake, what does it really cost? The little bit it takes to wash the plates?) I think talking to the catering manager about reducing the fee is a great idea!! I've done some delivering of wedding cakes and I too made sure I was out of the way of anyone there. I only set the cake up IN THE DINING ROOM right before the event, bringing all my own equipment (including a wet and a dry towel) so I don't even have to go in the kitchen at all.

Wow, I have a whole new outlook on delivery now! Has anyone ever taken a "staff cake" to the kitchen staff? I did it once and dropped a bunch of cards with it. It was well received, but I haven't done it since. I can relate to the post on samples I have done the same - a sample buffet on a silver platter, no less. It got me that one job, but then they took 2 months to pay me! I have made sample cakes for brides that I am actively working with - how does everyone else handle this issue? Do you keep single servings in the freezer? Would that work?

[This message has been edited by LoriB (edited 01-22-2001).]

[momoreg]

I keep samples in the freezer; each is 6 servings. Sometimes we get tastings of more than 2 people, so I'm always prepared for more.

Dominique:
First of all, let me thank you for this debate. Its about time it came to the forefront. I'm enjoying it immensely.
When I was a pastry chef at a few downtown hotels here in Chicago, I often interacted with the sales/catering dept. I was often called into meetings with clients. In doing so, I learned a few things.The big hotels make tons of money at almost all catered events. There are many "giveaways" to be offered to the perspectives. The room is practically free, but still costs thousands per hour. There is such a big mark-up on the food, big discounts are offered ("you know, I'm going to throw in the stuffed mushrooms at no cost"). Imagine the cost of the liquor bill,being enough to cover the whole party.
I even worked with a couple of sales people who gave me a "password" so that I could be involved in the scheme of giving away the cake("oh yes, we made a cake like that at the 'Smith wedding', didn't we chef?").
The point I'm trying to make is this: My perspective customers heard about me through word of mouth, or tasted my product at another function. The cake cutting fee is a deterrent to having the customer even call me. Almost like putting a wall in front of my storefront, forcing the customer to use all the hotels products. So;when it is said that using an outside source for a cake cuts way into your profit,I beg to differ...and I'm speaking from experience.
If you have customers who just want to use your restaurant, but their own staff and food, that has been done as well. A HUGE room fee,and a set-up / clean-up fee are charged. It happens all the time.

I look forward to your rebuttal

LoriB! while this thread didn't start out to be a complaining of cake deliverers, I'm glad that you got to see another side of it!

Palmier! Glad you're enjoying it! Me too. I worry because it's happened to me so many times that I thought I was in a lively and interesting debate and I would later find out the other person thought we were in an arguement. *sigh
I see your point on the freebies and perks offered to prospective clients and I'm sure that that's true of the larger hotels here in my town too (Westin and Loew's types). But speaking for my hotel only, we're rather small and no longer located in a premium spot. (The city kind of grew around the property.) To keep up with the competition we keep our prices lower. Since we don't have that extra built in cushion on our prices though, we DON'T have the same ability to offer freebies. We've never given away a cake, or the other food for that matter. BUT, we also don't charge a room fee as many of the larger hotels do. On a normal weekend night we're sometimes lucky to do 30 people, so for us we're pretty happy just with the profits we make off the food and alcohol when we book a wedding, and therefore our wedding cakes are a decent percentage of that profit.
Another issue, though I'd have to research it, (and I know that laws vary from state to state), but I'm PRETTY sure that in many states one is partially liable (or at least open to lawsuit) for any food served out of their restaurant, regardless of whether they prepared it or not. So a hotel may also taking on an extra potential risk then, any time they allow outside food to be brought in. (You can't imagine how freaked out we were after we found out those people were keeping the cake in their hotel room for 3 days as I mentioned earlier! ACK!)
I understand your point about wanting to make a profit too and the fees hindering that, but I also see the hotel's point of wanting to keep everything inside the hotel and charging the clients more if they want to use outside sources. BUT, as I said before, I don't agree with the cutting fee if a hotel DOESN'T have a pastry chef or the chef CAN'T do the cake.


[This message has been edited by Dominique (edited 01-25-2001).]

Kind of back to the original topic...

Obviously most of you aren't in the south--like me--because there is no mention of a grooms cake. Do you guys do them much? We ALWAYS have one. So I do 2 cakes for every wedding.

Also, down here we like our desserts sweet and buttery. Rolled fondant and marzipan doesn't go over so well. Some of the wealthy people will do it but after the wedding everyone talks about how beautiful but yucky the cake was. So I mostly just do buttercream cakes. Here is the problem: the rest of the world is doing rolled fondant so I am hard pressed to find any pictures of really pretty buttercream cakes. Any suggestions?

I've heard of people doing fondant over buttercream and removing the fondant before service...sheesh. I can hear my servers griping now.

eeyore

[momoreg]

It's usually not that hard to remove the fondant, as long as the temp isn't too hot, in which case, you wouldn't want to cover a cake with fondant, for the condensation risk.

Up here, we seldom get asked to do groom's cakes. It's a pain, but there are a lot of fun ideas that you can dream up for grooms!

Remove the fondant???? You mean peel it off slice by slice? That would seem to ruin the presentation to me - can you elaborate on this Momoreg? Most of my clients also want buttercream, the surface is very smooth if done carefully - I'm not sure why the cake would be any less pretty in buttercream, just a different look, not quite so slick. There was a thread on rolled buttercream which is tastier than fondant, but not as soft and buttery as buttercream - a possible compromise, but fragile in high heat as is buttercream.

I have only heard of a couple of weddings ordering grooms cakes, but I have not done one. I like the idea though, and the creative potential!

Others?

[momoreg]

I mean, peel the fondant off the entire tier before slicing. It can usually be done without roughing up the surface of the buttercream too much.

I've never used rolled b-cream. I'd like to try it one day.