My bread never turns out very good!

[ChefRAZ]

are you letting it rise two times 45 minutes? i don't bake bread off until it reaches 1 inch above the panbaking101_fermentation

[dfrantzen]

Search in google for "free baking book". I got an e-book online a while back and it was great. The Prepared Pantry I think.

It should help you bake bread.

[siduri]

Originally Posted by Luc_H

Tons of advice here.

I checked the recipe and there are many counterproductive ingredients in the recipe that go against what you are trying to achieve (fluffy texture).

There is lots of fat in the recipe. fat/oil goes against gluten and volume development. (for fluffy: lose the fat/oil)

Good luck!
Luc H.

The fat is counterproductive if added melted as usually recommended. If you add cold, after the kneading is done, it actually makes it light, try it and see.

[siduri]

Originally Posted by bryanricker

great thanks!
Just one question...
You say to add the butter one "slice" at a time... does this mean to not melt it at all? if it is cool then it will stay in chunks in the cool dough, won't it?

Actually, another question too:
For that last section, you say to sprinkle the rest of the dry ingredients on top of the mix you already made... does this mean just sprinkle it all on top of the mix and don't mix it in until after it sits for a few hours? What's the point of that?

Sorry, i was away and couldn't answer
yes, the butter is cool. You slice it thinly, and the kneading creates enough friction to melt it slightly and the dough absorbs it.

the rest of the dry are sprinkled on top of the mix and just left there. I don;t know what the point is of leaving it on top rathyer than leaving it in the measuring cup except for convenience - you have all the flour out and all and you just measure some more and you pour it on top, and don;t have to think about it again. You could also add in later. I find it more convenient. I remember reading why to use less flour for the first rise called in this case a "sponge" but now i don;t remember. There is a reason though

[siduri]

Originally Posted by Luc_H

Ordinary WW does not have enough gluten to make bread.


Luc H.

I've done it for years with only whole wheat flour, and it comes out great. It takes much more care, not to break the gluten, etc, but it does work.
e

[stir it up]

I read in a cereal technology book (I am forgetting the title and author at this moment) that 3% fat is the magic number you don't want to exceed. Up to 3% will promote rise, higher than 3% will not.

[sarinxr]

This is the method of bread mixing that I've been using for years.
1. Crumble yeast and mix in (warm) water till dissolved.
2. Mix water and all dry ingredients (except fats) to "flock" stage. That is to develop the gluten. You should get a rough dough.
3. Knead in the fats.
4. Keep kneading till you get an elastic dough.
I'm used to double proving as I do not like to use bread improvers.
First time, Bulk Ferment for 1 hr. Make sure dough is well covered with moist cloth or cling fim.
Shape and mould the dough. Prove till double in size.
Bake.
Hope you enjoy your breads!

[Luc_H]

Originally Posted by siduri

I've done it for years with only whole wheat flour, and it comes out great. It takes much more care, not to break the gluten, etc, but it does work.
e

Hi Siduri,

my above initial comments on what is counterproductive at bread making is not a comment to say it never works. I sensed that Bryanricker was a beginner at breadmaking and my comments was to give him a chance to start making good basic bread before making complicated good bread.

I suggest you go see the recipe he posted and you will see that the recipe will make a heavy dense bread simply based on the ingredients and technique, not a light textured product. (even the picture included seems to me like a dense bread)

I tried to comment directly on the recipe not on bread making as a whole. There is so many things that needs to go right to make a light bread that for a beginner going back to basics is a good starting point.

Most people that have replied here are experienced yet even after reading every comment it is very difficult to cover all the details of breadmaking in a simple post. In my opinion, taking out the fat, eggs and adding gluten would help the chances of success for BryanRicker that's all.

Luc H.

[siduri]

Originally Posted by Luc_H

Hi Siduri,

my above initial comments on what is counterproductive at bread making is not a comment to say it never works. I sensed that Bryanricker was a beginner at breadmaking and my comments was to give him a chance to start making good basic bread before making complicated good bread.

I suggest you go see the recipe he posted and you will see that the recipe will make a heavy dense bread simply based on the ingredients and technique, not a light textured product. (even the picture included seems to me like a dense bread)

I tried to comment directly on the recipe not on bread making as a whole. There is so many things that needs to go right to make a light bread that for a beginner going back to basics is a good starting point.

Most people that have replied here are experienced yet even after reading every comment it is very difficult to cover all the details of breadmaking in a simple post. In my opinion, taking out the fat, eggs and adding gluten would help the chances of success for BryanRicker that's all.

Luc H.

thanks luc, i didn't get your point before.

[KyleW]

I agree with those who question the amount of fat in the recipe. The reason they refer to fat as shortening is that it shortens the gluten strands. Gluten strands provide the bread its ability to form bubbles and trap air. It's the trapped air that form the open structure of bread. The other thing is that your recipe seems to be really dry. While there is some moisture associated with all the fat, there doesn't appear to be nearly enough liquid. Your result sounds like a classic underhydrated loaf, I know because I baked lots of them If you are looking for a Wonderbread like, 100% whole grain bread, try this.

Whole Wheat Oat Bran Bread
• 20 Oz. Whole Wheat Flour
• 1/3 Cup Oat Bran
• 2 tsp. Instant Yeast
• 4 TBS. Vital Wheat Gluten
• 2 tsp. Turbinado Sugar
• 2 tsp. Salt
• 8 Oz. Skim Milk - Scalded and cooled to 110?
• 5 Oz. Water
• 1 Large Egg
• 2 TBS Canola Oil


Whisk all the dry ingredients together in the bowl of an electric mixer fitted with the paddle. Add the wet ingredients and mixed thoroughly, 1-2 minutes. Switch to the dough hook and knead until the gluten is fully developed and the dough passes the window pane test, about 10 minutes.

Place the dough in an oiled container, cover with plastic wrap and let ferment until at least doubled in size, 1 - 1 1/2 hours.

Divide dough in half. "Pre" shape dough into very rough logs and let rest about 20 minutes. Shape loaves and place in 8" x 4" pans. Proof the loaves for 1 - 1/2 hours until at least 1 1/2 hours.

Bake @350 for about an hour, rotating half way through the baking. Cool completely on rack before slicing.

[pillsbury1]

try his brian...well first the gluten is a bit more difficult to delevope with whole grain flour..have u ever heard of a membrane test...i have no idea of the science behind it but ..but take out a small piece and try to expand into a thin membrane like you want to read a newspaper through it..this is a good test the gluten developement...maybe try omitting some of the flour...put all the ingrdients at once..and knead the heck out of it..push pull/push/pull till it feels like soft rubber....put in bowl cover with towel..till it at least doubles in size...dump back out on table...punch it back down again..then do the push/pull thing again....put back in bowl and let double in size AGAIN...then punch out all the air again and form it to your loaf pan...dont let it get a crust on it...keep the dish towel over it or plastic wrap..until its at the top of the pan....then bake...be careful not to deflate it when removing the film wrap...or the partys over...bread making is something that you have to develope a feel for...just takes time...of all the baking ive done in my life..bread was my fav thing to do....just always had a uncanny knack fot it...i do not know all the particulars of what u r making but these tips r just kinda an over view of what might help u some...sooo what if it takes u many more tries...u r not spending much on ingredients...and i bet your neighbors looove the smell.. luck to ya...keep us all posted...u got a ton of excellent advice..on the science of baking i guess i know zippo, nada....i just grew up in the trenches..