My biscuits have spots

[boar_d_laze]

Ducky,

I think you might be on to something.

All of the baking powders you listed are single acting, not double-acting baking powders -- despite what some of the retailers say (they just have it wrong). However, not all single actings are created equal. Because of the particular dry acids used in Bob's and Bakewell, they get a little more action in the oven than Rumford or Hain. Your order of "spottiness" is about what you'd expect if rate of rise was the culprit.

BDL

[baytonemus]

Interesting. I'll have to see which BPs are available to me here.

What's the principle at work with regard to single and double acting powders?

[boar_d_laze]

Baking SODA is sodium bicarbonate (NaHC03), a.k.a. "bicarb," bicarbonate of soda. In chemistry jargon it's a "buffering salt." In the presence of acid in solution it reacts by forming carbon dioxide gas (among other products.) The gas "lifts" the dough. The bottom line is baking soda needs a liquid acid to do its work. Buttermilk is such an acid. If baking soda is the leavening agent, most of its leavening takes place as soon as the acid is added. Because of temperature/efficiency considerations, there is some slight, additional gas production when the dough is heated in the oven.

"But," you ask, if the gas is already in the dough where does the rise come from?" The gas forms bubbles in the dough. When the dough is heated, the gas within the bubbles expands, and the dough rises. Okay?

Baking POWDER is the combination of a compound like NaHC03 which will produce gas in the presence of an acid in solution, PLUS a "dry acid." The dry acid becomes an acid solution as soon as it gets wet. At that point the gas producing compound starts doing its work. Old fashioned biscuit and other quick bread recipes used buttermilk for the reason that its acidity reacted with the bicarb. With baking powder which contains its own acid, we no longer need to add a liquid acid; but we all like the taste of buttermilk biscuits.

SINGLE ACTING BAKING POWDER is, as described above and nothing else. Some single actings get all their lift at room temperature, and some reserve a little for heat. It depends on the nature of the two compounds. However, a good rule of thumb with all single actings is to get the dough into the oven as soon as possible after mixing in the liquid, with as little handling as possible -- so as not to give the gas time to dissipate nor squeeze it out.

DOUBLE ACTING BAKING POWDER is as described above, with the addition of a second compound which requires a significant amount of heat energy to potentiate the gas releasing reaction. Double actings give you a lot more leeway in terms of time and handling. Regarding handling -- when you first mix the dough it will feel very light as a result of the gas produced by the first gas producing compound. The more you handle it the more gas you knock out -- and it's a difference you'll feel as "heaviness." If your dough starts feeling heavy, stop fooling with it. You want to save as much gas as possible even though you're going to get more later. With biscuits, the more the better.

Get it?

BDL

[baytonemus]

Thanks for the tutorial. You all just might turn me into a baker yet!

JAY

[OregonYeti]

Dalmatian biscuits?

[baytonemus]

Howdy-

In case anyone is interested, I thought I'd post with the results of some changes to my recipe/process I tried yesterday. I put the dry ingredients twice through an old crank-type flour sifter, (the only one we have), plus stirred them a bit afterwards. I also decreased the baking powder from 4 to 3 tps, but used the same bp and soda. Finally, I increased both the butter and the shortening to 3 Tbs each and used a pastry cutter to mix. On this last item, I'd like to comment that I've watched a lot of cooking shows where expert biscuit makers are mixing with their hands so I'm a little skeptical as to how critical the heat transfer through the hands is. In any case, I made sure the buttermilk was VERY cold when I added it and I also chilled the dough prior to working/rolling.

The spots have almost disappeared in this batch. Just a very few light ones remain. The biscuits puffed up maybe a bit more (1.75-2.0") but are also heavier. My recipe calls for them to be rolled to 1" thickness before cutting. I think this might be a little too thick because, although they are nicely browned on the outside, the middle seems just-barely-almost-not-quite done. I might also try a smaller cutter.

The other thing I think I learned is that you need to make a complete cut with the biscuit cutter. I was sort of cheating along the edges - not actually cutting through on one side of a couple of them. These seemed to open up like a clam shell when baked. Old news to most of you, I'm sure.

I think I need a different/better flour sifter, something that's easier to get the ingredients into. Thanks again.

JAY

[boar_d_laze]

Be interesting to see what happens when you get some fresh BP. How old is yours, anyway?

The keeping things very cold thing is about flakier biscuits. Not handling too much after adding liquid is about lighter, more tender biscuits. There's a lot of range in terms of more or less before getting to right or wrong.

Your description of getting more rise, yet heavier biscuits doesn't make a lot of sense at first blush, and would make none at all if you weren't talking about biscuits. I think you're got more loft, a more even texture, and your biscuits finished slightly damp. The first two were consequences of getting the BP/BS/flour ratio right, and sifting.

You don't really need to sift with modern flour, BTW. It's good for making sure things are thoroughly mixed, but not much else. Any air you put into the flour, you knock out when you cut in the fat. But you do need to cook your biscuits a little longer. They weren't quite done which is why they seemed heavier even though they got more rise. The extra shortening doesn't make heavier biscuits, it makes flakier biscuits.

Sounds like you're running down the home stretch. Try brushing the tops with a little buttermilk before baking and see if that doesn't get rid of the spots altogether. If you don't like buttermilk, you can brush them with a mix of melted butter and honey.

Yes to the clean cut all the way 'round, and yes we all learned it the hard way too.

BDL

[baytonemus]

My baking powder is Calumet and says July 2008 so it's not terribly old but does fall within your "6 mo. expiration" range. As far as mixing the dry ingredients is concerned, I know that you can mix them in a food processor but that seems like a lot of mess, especially since I wouldn't be using it for anything else. What about shaking everything up in a sealed container?

I had actually intended to brush them with buttermilk but I forgot. And to answer your question, who doesn't like buttermilk?

Thanks again - JAY

[boar_d_laze]

You can mix the dry ingredients with a fork or spoon or whatever, before cutting in the shortening. You want them fairly evenly distributed -- not perfection. The cutting in will even the distribution still farther. What I'm trying to say is the sifter is fine, and makes a slight difference to texture. But you don't need it for distribution or measuring accuracy.

Distribution -- nice but you don't need it.

Measuring accuracy -- way overrated in baking. Why? Because the moisture content of flour varies with the humidity, the way its stored, the maker etc., all measurements are inherently flawed. What you're looking for is ABOUT the right amount of leavening and seasoning for a given weight/volume of flour. Forgive me for going off on a rant, but: There is no exact right amount under normal home conditions. Those things about tamping the measuring cup down, wiping the top off with your finger, skinning the top of the tablespoon, etc., are pandering to the insecurities and OCD of old wives, and not much else.

Returning to the point, you certainly don't need to shake things up in a jar or use the processor. Your BP is old, brother. Time to put it out of your misery. 07/08 means 07/08 if that's the date you open it. It degrades more quickly once it's opened because moisture from humidity gets in there and starts to potentiate the dry acid. You'll really like fresh baking powder. Yes indeed. What you might want to try, down the line, is self-rising flour like Bisquick. I'm not sure what makes biscuits made from SR flour different, but they are. Don't worry, it's down home enough to still say "from scratch." Recipe's on the box.

This conversation got me going, my biscuits are just about ready to come out of the oven.

Thanks,
BDL

[baytonemus]

I know that pro bakers for the most part measure flour by weight. Seems like that would make sense and I think most of us these days have a reasonably accurate scale. But your point is that there are too many variables to worry about it with small quantities?

Does self-rising flour have the bp and/or baking soda already in it?

Which reminds me, do you (or anyone else on the list) have a good recipe for Red Lobster-style cheesy biscuits? They're a little too salty but my family all loves those.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by baytonemus

I know that pro bakers for the most part measure flour by weight. Seems like that would make sense and I think most of us these days have a reasonably accurate scale. But your point is that there are too many variables to worry about it with small quantities?

My point was not to make yourself nuts trying to tighten down all the variables to exact torque specs. Baking -- especially breads is an inexact science.

Does self-rising flour have the bp and/or baking soda already in it?

Yes

Which reminds me, do you (or anyone else on the list) have a good recipe for Red Lobster-style cheesy biscuits? They're a little too salty but my family all loves those.

It's available with a little Google research. There all sorts of recipe recreation sites. No doubt you'll have to evaluate a few recipes to decide which one sounds best. My wife loves cheesy biscuits. My advice is to add cheese and scallions to your favorite biscuit dough at the same time you add the liquid. About 1/3 cup of shredded cheddar, and about a table spoonful of minced scallions, per cup of flour in the dough is about right.

Another favorite addition at our house is fines herbe de Provence -- about 3/4 tsp per cup of flour. Sometimes we use fresh rosemary instead or as well. Sometimes onion and dill.

BDL

[baytonemus]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

My advice is to add cheese and scallions to your favorite biscuit dough at the same time you add the liquid. About 1/3 cup of shredded cheddar, and about a table spoonful of minced scallions, per cup of flour in the dough is about right.

Another favorite addition at our house is fines herbe de Provence -- about 3/4 tsp per cup of flour. Sometimes we use fresh rosemary instead or as well. Sometimes onion and dill.

BDL

Man, these all sound good! Thanks once again.

JAY