Pain de Campagne Starter

[ddunn]

Lalvain du jour's Pain de Campagne starter sold in the USA by KAF/Bakerscatalog.com produces a unique bread that I make regularly. However, the instructions call for 6 oz of warm water at the time of making the dough. Following the advice of bread baking instructors that the temperature to shoot for at the end of knead is 77 degrees F, I do not warm the water, but the results is the primary and secondary fermentation takes a very long time, many hours. The resulting loaves are very good in flavor, crumb, etc., but I am wondering if any of you are making this bread and following the instructions by warming the water at the point where you make the dough?

[Kimmie]

There's nothing wrong with warm water. In fact, many recipes call for water temperature of 105 to 110 degrees. You might want to test your recipe with your water at 100 degrees, for good measure...

[KyleW]

The long, slow rise is seen by many as advantageous. The longer the dough ferments, the more flavor you develop. I think it all depends on your schedule. There are times when I will put shaped loaves in the fridge over night. This slows down the growth of the yeast while allowing the flavors to continue developing.

[ddunn]

I agree with both posts. As far as warming the water as per the KA instructions, I think I will ease it up maybe 10 degrees on the next making. Obviously there is something about this yeast and/or the bacteria that requires more heat than is normal for this style of bread. I am simply curious about why the increased heat that will definitely cause the final temperature of the kneaded dough to exceed 77 degrees F will not adversely impact flavor, etc. via oxidation. I began refrigerating during both primary and secondary fermentation more out of necessity than design. My chosen profession keeps me extremely busy at times, and interruptions are not unusual. Being able to pop the dough in the refrigerator to slowly rise to a more convenient time has been wonderful. I soon discovered that this convenience greatly improved the bread, too.

[KyleW]

Someone (Daniel Leder?) has a chart that shows what temp water to use, based on the temp of the flour, to get to the desired temp of the finished dough. I've also seen that the temp of the finished dough can be between 77º-81º. If I can find the chart I will post it. I'm curious, does KA say to what temp you should warm the water?

[KyleW]

It was Joe Ortiz and it's a formula rather than a chart. He uses 75º but I would think you could sub in any temp for the final dough.

If you want 75º dough:

If the temp of the water, flour and room are all 75º you will end up with 75º dough, mixed by hand. 75+75+75=225. But if the air temp is 80º, the flour temp is also likely to be 80º. To figure the water temp, subtract the flour and air temps from the total. You need to account for the increase in temp caused my the mixer. the mixer. This is usually 1º/minute. If you mix for 10 minutes you have to subtract 10 to get to the right water temp.
225-(80+80+10)=55º for the water.

[ddunn]

The printed instructions that comes with the Lalvain du jour's Pain de Campagne yeast/bacteria does instruct to add warm water to it to make the sponge, and once the sponge is ready it instructs to add warm water to the sponge along with the other ingredients including 1/2 t instant yeast to make the dough. The fact is the process of bread making is quite forgiving, and with a reasonable amount of care, it is fairly easy to produce good results. Personally I am driven by a passion to produce world class bread, and that will require attention to detail. The key is to keep the "science" in balance with the art of this passion. Frankly. I find it freeing to get the detail down, so that I may enjoy the creative side of this hobby more fully. Also I have an insatiable hunger to understand the how and why of things. Just knowing that cooling the dough results in better bread did not satisfy me. Understanding that doing so slows fermentation giving additional time for enzymes to work and the dough to develop flavor, texture, etc., is satisfying.

[Jock]

Amen to that ddunn. But I'm curious, who eats all this bread you bake? As much as I love bread and love making it, all 3 of us in my family can't eat it all when I make a couple of loaves at a time.

Jock

[Kimmie]

from Ddunn Personally I am driven by a passion to produce world class bread, and that will require attention to detail. The key is to keep the "science" in balance with the art of this passion.

It's now time to hit the books! What have you read so far? Any guidance required?

[ddunn]

Great question about who eats all this bread, since I average baking 8-10 loaves a week. It is amazing how many friends you accumulate when you begin to make really great bread! Actually my co-workers and neighbors are the benefactors of my obsession. I am now working my way through Reinhart's The Bread Baker's Apprentice. Recently finished Calvel's "text book", The Taste of Bread, which was dry but informative. Reinhart's book is like a breath of fresh air comparatively speaking.

[KyleW]

I have similarly fed colleagues I'm afraid I may have created a monster. It's been a few weeks since my goods have made it to work and one of them reminded me of that yesterday

I agree about the two books. While I wouldn't want to curl up in front of the fire with Calvel's book, it does provide great fundamental information.

[Jock]

When I got Reinhart's Bread Baker's Apprentice one Friday lunchtime, I thought I'd be making great bread on Saturday. It took me fully a week to read and digest (no pun intended ) enough information to even think about satrting to make really good bread. I actually did curl up in front of the fire with this one. I'm about to re-read the first hundred pages to absorb more.
My wife thinks I'm nuts to go to these lenghts but she doesn't complain about the end result.

Jock

[lwbrg]

Hi all! Newbie here! I have a packet of Pain de Campagne but no instructions. Can anyone share?

Todd

[KyleW]

Is it a specific brand? What are the listed ingredients?

[KyleW]

Here is a link to the Lalvain site w/feeding instuctions for their starter.

http://consumer.lallemand.com/fermipan/recipesd.html