[BigToque]

This is a duplicate post from another forum as I am trying to get maximum exposure for an answer to my query.

HELP..I am a corporate executive chef for a 1/2 billion dollar company and am trying to help our R&D dept. with a new product we are developing in which we are having problems with the dough. If you are an expert in this field then I don't have to tell you about all the variables that can affect the final product and our specific problem so I will not waste the time to write a hundred page essay giving all the details in this thread.

However, IF you are an expert in this field..I would GREATLY appreciate your input on this problem and if you reply in this thread or email me I will outline the issue. Thanks again for your help.

Todd M. Mill CEC
Corporate Executive Chef
Preferred Meal Systems Inc.
skychef1@hotmail.com
pacrimchef@cs.com
302 562-4919

[momoreg]

Big Toque,
You don't need to post your question in more than 1 place, but since you didn't ask your question, it is very difficult to give you an answer here.

What kind of dough? What is the problem?

[BigToque]

Thanks, here is a cut and paste from an email I sent out to some associates.

If any of you have any suggestions
to this problem, they would be much appreciated. I am currently
trying to help my R&D dept with a little problem they are having
with a new product we are developing for commercial production.
We just invested in 4 100k dollar machines for the production
of en croute products and our first project is a line of "pockets".
We are having a big problem with all the different doughs we try
cracking. Of course when they crack, the filling tends to "oooz"
and that is not a good thing. The dough we are trying to perfect
has some interesting characteristics that pose many possible
problems and I would love to have your expert input. The dough
has both yeast AND baking powder but does not allow any proofing
time for the yeast lending me to the conclusion that the baking
powder is the primary levening agent. Do you think this "raw" yeast
could be causing the problem? Also, the recipe does not call for any
sugar for the yeast to feed on...could THAT be the possible cause?
I have wondered about using a steam injection into the oven at the
beginning of the baking process to moisten the dough prior to the
harsh heat as an option. The oven that we will ultimately be using
in the production of this product is a conveyor type the size
of a friggin' train car but it does ahve the capability of adding
steam to the cooking process. We have tried several different types
and quantities of shortning to give the dough more elasticity but
to no avail. When we are "lucky", it cracks on the top so that there
is no "oooz" but this is obviously still not acceptable for mass
production. We are, of course, aware of the MANY variables in the
production of bread products. We are using bottled spring water with
a very low ph and the highest quality bread flour.

Any suggestions you might have..no matter how far fetched would be
appreciated.

[momoreg]

Without knowing what ingredients are used, and in what proportions, it's impossible to figure out whether ingredients are to blame. I don't think that un-proofed yeast has anything to do with the dough cracking, as long as it's well dissolved.

Your dough may be rolled too thin, or it contains too many dry ingredients. Certain doughs can also crack from too much fat--the dough sort of separates and slides off itself, taking on a curdled appearance. I don't imagine that's your problem, since you thought it might need MORE fat. It may also be too much leavener.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

[kuan]

Okay my friend. First attend my seminar "Getting along with your Food Scientist: or What in the World is a Polysaccharide?"

J/K, but there are steps you can take, but we still need to know a few things. Is it a half product? ie., is it meant to be delivered fully cooked or half baked? What I'm really asking is, at what point during production does it crack?

I would take a look at two things. The sheeting process and the dough itself.

One of the problems may be shear. This occurs during the sheeting process. If effective temperatures (remember ideal gas law) go above a certain threshold then you may have partially gelatinized the dough resulting in uneven expansion. You can't really eyeball this, you need to send it to someone.

Are you using any dough improvers? Many products out on the market utilize dough improvers. You may have to use some modified starches. Top quality bread flour alone doesn't cut it if you want to move into large scale production.

A good idea would be to call the American Institute of Baking. They can help, and if they can't, they'll probably know someone who can.

Kuan

[kuan]

Wonder what happened with this project.

Kuan