Oven Spring Vs. Kneading Time

[kokopuffs]

Okay illustrious bakers and afficionados. Last night I got the best oven spring in a long time. For this dough I decreased the kneading time from 4.5 minutes to 2 minutes. Also, the mixer's speed was increased. The resultant dough seemed much tighter.

It seems that kneading should cease when the dough "seizes" the dough hook.

Does overkneading cause breakage of the gluten strands and a lower profile loaf?

[thebighat]

Eventually it will, it's called "letdown" to mix a dought that long, and I doubt you could do it with a tabletop mixer. I mix bialy dough for 25 min on 2nd in a 20 qt, and I've never seen it happen there. But different kinds of mixers have different effects on dough. According to Maggie Glezer, a horizontal mixer can break a dough up. See the chapter on bialys in Artisan Baking. We used to mix our French bread for 15 min on 3rd in a 80 qt hobart, not something I would do now, and it would come out at over 90 degrees, hot and sticky, and probably not far away from breaking down. You could hear the sound of the process change from the next room and know that it was at nine minutes, as the dough just seemed to let go.

[danno]

Most straight lean doughs, i rarely mix for more than 7 minutes on second speed. I use a 8 Qt Sparr mixer. i know it is a small mixer and there are only 3 speds so the 2nd speed is gonna be a little faster than othere mixers with 4 speeds. I have to agree with thebighat 4.5 minutes isnt long enough to overwork a doughunless you are using spelt flour and even then Its kind of a stretch.Remember thare are a lot of ithe factors that can be considered, your Oven temp, the amount of steam that is involved.your fermentation weather or not the amount is sufficient or not