Question about starters?

[angrychef]

My bread came out great. I used Reinhart's Crust and Crumb recipe, with a little addition of honey. Very tasty, good rise and nice big holes in the crumb(I would still like it lighter). There is definitely room for improvement, though. I went into Kyle's website and read through his step-by-step starter commentary. My starter is definitely not as bubbly as his, but then again mine is more of a very thick/gooey(can't pour it) batter rather than the more liquid one he has in his photos.

I also made Cookwise's "light-as-a-dream hot rolls" and they were wonderful. Very light and puffy.

[W.DeBord]

I've been reading along.......I have read several of the bread books you "bread guys" talk about.....anyway I'm trying to figure out whom your referencing Bighat? I can't place who Ed Wood is, nor Scott and Wing.....would you mind mentioning their books or sites, please?

Also, I've never heard of the hearth kit for a home oven your mentioning, could you tell me abit about it?

I've really wanted to begin my studing on bread.....AH pastries....there's never enough time to learn all there is to learn!

Thanks

[kokopuffs]

Visit this site for the hearthkit:

http://www.metro-hearth.com/

[KyleW]

Ed wood is the author of "World Sourdoughs From Antiquity". He is also the proprietor of Sourdoughs International . He is a proponent of warm fermentation, I think around 80º. Wing and Scott are Daniel Wing and Alan Scott. They are the authors of The Bread Builders , a great book on wild yeast bread baking. Scott is also a master brick oven builder.

The HearthKit is a 3 sided stone that slides into home ovens. This page shows how it radiates heat from three sides.

[KyleW]

Originally posted by angrychef
nice big holes in the crumb(I would still like it lighter).

Try adding more water. When it comes to big, irregular holes, wetter is better.

[W.DeBord]

Thank-you......I appreciate the links too!

[angrychef]

Ok, I guess reading from too many books produces information overload and confusion. In Peter's book he says a wetter starter produces more acetic acid(sour flavor) while a drier sponge favors lactic acid bacteria. At the San Francisco Baking Institute webpage I lifted this quote from one of the instructors
"A stiffer starter, at around 50% hydration will produce more acetic acid, resulting in more sour bread. A liquid sour, at 100% hydration, will favor lactic acid, and produce a mild and less complex flavor." Maggie Glezer's book says the same thing.

In smelling and tasting my starter, I do notice it is more sour when it is more liquid.

[KyleW]

Does the phrase "moving target" mean anything to you?

That Reinhart favors a more liquid starter may be why he also advocates building a firm, or intermediate, starter before building a dough. I think that one of the reasons he advocates a 100% hydration starter is ease of maintenance.

[angrychef]

Meaning if your starter is pretty firm in the first place---you don't have to build an intermediate starter? I've been keeping my starter at 100% hydration(like you said, easy on the math) and it's alive and kicking. I've still been hit and miss building the levain loaves. I tried Leader's recipe with the starter at 90%-100% and it wasn't too good. I still like Peter's mild levain recipe best. But the confusing part is building the intermediate starter---why can't you just use the refreshed starter as is??

[thebighat]

You can use the refreshed starter as is. Reinhart mentions that and I think some of Silverton's bread that I've made does it that way. That's too bad that you found that discrepancy re: the lactic and acetic acid and the stiffness of a starter. I'll bet Wing and Scott have something to say about it. I'll look. Speaking of Scott, I fired my brick oven yesterday for the first time since Jan 1. Roasted some chickens, some potatoes and two gorgeous loafs of that cook's illustrated Italian bread. They came out absolutely perfect.

[angrychef]

Bighat, can I come over for dinner?!?!?!That sounds so good.

I'm making your Italian bread recipe in an hour.

[angrychef]

Italian bread was a success, my husband and I devoured it with shrimp scampi cooked in olive oil and lots of garlic.

My past 2 bread baking days have been very successful. I refreshed my starter and used it the next day as is(a test). I made one formula with 50% starter and another with 40%. I made the dough more on the wet side since I like all those big holes. A crosssection of the my bread looks a lot like Thom's country french bread photo in Artisan Baking. Happy with the results

[KyleW]

Congrats! Now you are beginning to experience the moving target that is bread baking. It is not quite the exact science it's thought to be. The more you play the more you will learn.

[angrychef]

Update on my starters---I made Peter's San Francisco sourdough today in baguettes and batards---the taste was amazing!!!! I no longer buy store bought bread since I've been making it on a regular basis. My shaping techniques need improvement, though.

[KyleW]

Great stuff AC! Isn't this wild yeast stuff cool? The shaping requires lots and lots of practice. One thing my "teachers" at Amy's kept drumming into my head was to slow down. Better to do it right than to do it fast. The speed will come later