friend got Botchlaism from a weding cater

[damack]

im just posting this as a heads up, i have a friend that went to a wedding last weekend and went to the hospital a few days later, at first they didn’t think there was anything wrong but now she has Botchlaism she will be in ICU for 3 month and in the hospital and this is how they found out she is pregnant, she is paralyzed all over her whole body except she can still move her eyes and blink

im not writing this because i want pity for my friend, but if i knew that cater they would probly be out of a job, well i am mad at who did this but also i don’t want this to happen to any one else

but im writing this because i want to make sure that our craft and art stay right, know who you are doing business with, check your food and if it doesn’t look good, DONT SERVE IT, don’t use it, you can be out of a job or in a court room paying off medical debts.

make sure you know what your doing if its to big of a job or if they are not paying enough and u choose to use less quality product DONT DO THIS.


this is what i go buy at work, if it doesn’t look good enough for you to eat then throw it away.

[shipscook]

botulism bacteria can not be seen, smelled, or tasted.
I can not post a link here, but if you do a search, you will find a lot of information on the three types of botulism.
A big cause is the improper home canning of low acid foods. Also found in meat products.
It is also very important to try and keep any of the suspect food for lab work.

[cheflayne]

My sympathies to your friend about her condition. Botulism is not something to take lightly. Hopefully the board of health will be able to track down the source of the botulism and remove the threat. If it originated with the caterer, I am sure that others that attended the same function will also exhibit symptoms. The sad thing about food borne illnesses is that the transmission of them is usually not detectable through any of our five senses. So while the rule "if it doesn't look right, throw it out" is certainly a good one, it is not comprehensive enough to prevent the transmission of food borne illnesses. The best solution for that is education. The average worker in our industry is woefully ignorant on the subject of food borne illnesses and the amount of mis-information out there is truly staggering. We owe it to ourselves, to make sure that we are educated on the subject, so that hopefully, we can become contributing factors to raising the general awareness of food borne illness and it's prevention in our industry.

[bluezebra]

Wow!!! So very sorry to hear this!!! *shudders*

[lentil]

So sorry to hear about your friend. I hope she has a full recovery!

I question whether she really got it from the wedding food, though. It would seem that she wouldn't be the only one to get it since there were many people eating the same food.

[shroomgirl]

wow, guess they may not have been paying attention is food handling class.

[damack]

Originally Posted by lentil

So sorry to hear about your friend. I hope she has a full recovery!

I question whether she really got it from the wedding food, though. It would seem that she wouldn't be the only one to get it since there were many people eating the same food.

well thats what i was thinking at first too but with her being pregnant her imune system is not at top notch and it could be something that, any one eles could fight off but due to this she was the one that didnt fight it off.

just make sure you guys dont do this to any one eles this is a horable way to have the end of a wedding weekend, CYA

[KYHeirloomer]

"A big cause is the improper home canning of low acid foods."

Bzzt! Wrong! Thanks for playing.

Most food-borne boutulism events are traced to restaurants and other commercial establishments (including small, custom canning operations), not to home canning.

Although conventional wisdom has it that improperly home-canned foods are a major cause of boutulism, the facts do not bear this out.

For the last year I checked, there were only 23 food borne boutulism events in all of North America. Of those, 5 cases (one event) could be traced to home-canned foods.

And, as it turns out, the canning process wasn't at fault. The foodstuff was used in a mayo-based salad, which was set out on a picnic table, and sat there for several hours.

I am not belittling the need for following safe canning practices. But I'm getting a little tired of these unsupported scare stories too.

One of the problems is understanding the published information. USDA, for instance, says you must hold food at 240 F for X time to kill boutulism bacteria. Then you read CDC reports, and they say 175F.

The difference is significant. Old timers used to believe that they could can low-acid foods safely by increasing the boiling time. CDC would seem to support this, because you do not need a pressure canner to maintain 175F (for you foreigners, water boils at 212F), but you do need one to maintain 240F.

Turns out, as you read deeper, that CDC is talking about what it takes to destroy the toxins; which is not the same as destroying the bacteria.

There is often contradictory information from the same agency, too, which certainly doesn't help. For instance, the Extension Service's Homemakers organization still recommends boiling suspect food for ten minutes. But the Master Preserver program holds this practice in disrepute.

Is a definate puzzlement.

[cheflayne]

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer

And, as it turns out, the canning process wasn't at fault. The foodstuff was used in a mayo-based salad, which was set out on a picnic table, and sat there for several hours.

Could you please elaborate because mayo sitting out for a few hours sounds more like a case for salmonella than botulism, since botulism is anaerobic.

[Cat Man]

Originally Posted by shipscook

botulism bacteria can not be seen, smelled, or tasted.
I can not post a link here, but if you do a search, you will find a lot of information on the three types of botulism.
A big cause is the improper home canning of low acid foods. Also found in meat products.
It is also very important to try and keep any of the suspect food for lab work.

Shipscook
Since C Bot is anaerobic (does not multiply when exposed to air), how is it found in meat products, other than cross contamination (which would mean all food products)?

As far as the caterer liability, this particular case should not put them out of business, but might hurt the reputation. Botulism doesn't appear overnight either. Chances are a supplier ingredient is at fault, so the money will follow it back to production. Unless of course, it was a friends home made canned ceaser dressing. That would be really bad and illegal.

Cat Man

[Cat Man]

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer

"A big cause is the improper home canning of low acid foods."

Bzzt! Wrong! Thanks for playing.

Most food-borne boutulism events are traced to restaurants and other commercial establishments (including small, custom canning operations), not to home canning.

Although conventional wisdom has it that improperly home-canned foods are a major cause of boutulism, the facts do not bear this out.

For the last year I checked, there were only 23 food borne boutulism events in all of North America. Of those, 5 cases (one event) could be traced to home-canned foods.

Turns out, as you read deeper, that CDC is talking about what it takes to destroy the toxins; which is not the same as destroying the bacteria.

KY

Did you just say that 5 of the 23 cases were home canning origin?
22-23% of the US cases and you consider that insignificant?

I must disagree. It is significant and more dangerous since the likelyhood of a higher degree of consumption of the contaminated product.

Regarding C Bot toxins, my understanding is once the toxins are present, no amount of cooking or acid introduction will kill toxins.

Cat Man

[KYHeirloomer]

Catman, you need to read what I write a little closer. And learn the terminolgy if you want to discuss these things.

For the year quoted, there are several aspects you are reading incorrectly.

First, I said "all of North America," not "United States." What this demonstrates, among other things, is that food borne botulism---from any cause---is rather rare. Considering all the noise that's made about it, I find this rather strange.

Second, go back and see where I say "event" and where I say "case." Those are distinctly different things.

An event, as reported by health officials, refers to causation. Let's say you are on a cruise ship and there's an outbreak of some disease. That is an event. A case is a specific infection. Using that same example, if 300 people on the ship come down with the disease (or symptoms of the disease) then you have one event and 300 cases.

There are numbers of cases that define when an "event" becomes a "pandemic," and when a "pandemic" becomes an "epidemic."

So, just to be clear, for the year cited, there were 23 food-borne situations (events) that caused people (I don't have total numbers, cuz I wasn't interested in them at the time) to exhibit symptoms of boutulism. Of those, only one event, for a total of 5 people (cases) could be traced to home-canned food. And in that case, as mentioned, it was not the processing but later misuse.

Given those figures, if you want to figure percentages, you would first have to determine how many thousands of jars of food are home-canned in North America. And then figure what percentage of that number is represented by one jar. So, it might turn out that your 22-23 figure is correct; except there are a whole lot of zeros between the decimal point and that first 2.

But even if all 23 events resulted from home-canned food, you are still doing the math wrong. The question being discussed is whether or not improperly home-canned food is a big cause of boutulism. To determine that, the population is every jar of home-canned food, laid against the number of them that caused the problem. So it would be X-thousands against 23.

If you were more concerned with reading correctly, and understanding these things, instead of tying to prove me wrong all the time, this wouldn't be a problem.

"Regarding C Bot toxins, my understanding is once the toxins are present, no amount of cooking or acid introduction will kill toxins."

Your understanding may be correct, based on the references you consulted. The basic problem, as I clearly indicated, is that different agencies, and different departments within the same agency, have different research parameters and have established different protocols.

Personally, having first-hand knowledge of how they work, if there's a conflict between USDA and CDC, I'll go with CDC every time. But that's a different issue.

No matter whose protocols you choose, however, the fundamental fact is that home-canned food is not a significant cause of food-borne boutulism, and is not considered to be so among food safety officials.

"more like a case for salmonella than botulism, since botulism is anaerobic."

That would have been my assumption, too, Cheflayne. So, obviously, there was more involved. But I can only go with what was reported. And it was awhile ago that I checked, and do not have that report anymore.

I can make a guess about what happened. But won't, Catman would then go on the attack again, overlooking the fact that I was speculating.

However, for anyone who's really interested, you can easily search out all this information, and find the latest annual figures---and explanations for them---because they are all published on the net.

[cheflayne]

from CDC website, if you go to USDA website and type in botulism, you get sent to exact same CDC page

How common is botulism?
In the United States an average of 110 cases of botulism are reported each year. Of these, approximately 25% are foodborne, 72% are infant botulism, and the rest are wound botulism. Outbreaks of foodborne botulism involving two or more persons occur most years and usually caused by eating contaminated home-canned foods. The number of cases of foodborne and infant botulism has changed little in recent years, but wound botulism has increased because of the use of black-tar heroin, especially in California.

How can botulism be prevented?
Botulism can be prevented. Foodborne botulism has often been from home-canned foods with low acid content, such as asparagus, green beans, beets and corn. However, outbreaks of botulism from more unusual sources such as chopped garlic in oil, chile peppers, tomatoes, improperly handled baked potatoes wrapped in aluminum foil, and home-canned or fermented fish. Persons who do home canning should follow strict hygienic procedures to reduce contamination of foods. Oils infused with garlic or herbs should be refrigerated. Potatoes which have been baked while wrapped in aluminum foil should be kept hot until served or refrigerated. Because the botulism toxin is destroyed by high temperatures, persons who eat home-canned foods should consider boiling the food for 10 minutes before eating it to ensure safety. Instructions on safe home canning can be obtained from county extension services or from the US Department of Agriculture. Because honey can contain spores of Clostridium botulinum and this has been a source of infection for infants, children less than 12 months old should not be fed honey. Honey is safe for persons 1 year of age and older. Wound botulism can be prevented by promptly seeking medical care for infected wounds and by not using injectable street drugs.

[shipscook]

[quote=Cat Man;180081]Shipscook
Since C Bot is anaerobic (does not multiply when exposed to air), how is it found in meat products, other than cross contamination (which would mean all food products)?

From what I understand from a link from:cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap2.html--the bacteria is in soil and water and when ingested by a fish, bird or other animal it can be in smoked or cured meats that have not been brought up to temp. Several cases in Alaska and the Orient have been from dried or fermented fish.
So, it would seem if you prepared some of this on a cutting board that you could cross contaminate?? Or put heated food back on plate where cool had been. It is only spread through ingestion?

One article I found said to sterilize or destroy containers that may be contaminated?

Does the bacteria in the foil wrapped baked potatoes come from the soil, must?

Thanks for posting the CDC stuff Chef Flayne

Nan

[Cat Man]

KY
Thanks for the beating.
I was a little feisty yesterday and probably provoked you unreasonably.
Apologies for that.

It seems there is a lot of conflicting information available.
Even though the CDC, USDA and FDA finally began working closer together (for the first time, the 3 collaborated on the 1999 Food Code, and each one since), it appears there are still conflicts of data and reporting amongst the three agencies.

Obviously, foodborne C Bot is a major concern for all, mainly because the health impact is so significant a risk even for perfectly healthy people. (As opposed to Salmonella and E Coli o157h7 which are easily overcome by the general population, except, of course, young, elderly and sick).

Regardless, any case of C Bot poisoning is unfortunate and I feel for anyone unfortunate enough to experience it.

Cat Man