Chef.... why? its not worth it!

[shroomgirl]

Thanks alot Palmier....Mom's are special people that deserve the best you have in you....

If money is an issue where you are at, or time, or conditions...there are many other venues you can pursue.

[ April 22, 2001: Message edited by: shroomgirl ]

There are some unfair things that happen in this business but I'll roll with it, and work for better conditions. Speaking of $$bucks, I checked out some online job sites. Hotels and B&B's in the Adirondikes (sp) are paying 40-60K for breakfast chefs with full benefits. Is that another country, or what?

[foodnfoto]

I don't think anyone here is trying to discourage you, Afra, only to discuss differing individual viewpoints about compensation for the job. I was in foodservice for 25 years, 16 of them as either executive chef or a comparable level, before switching venues. Some jobs paid what, at face value, looked like a good salary with benefits. However, the number of days per week and hours per day I was required to work averaged out to be BELOW minimum wage.
There is also quite a bit of sexual discrimination in foodservice regarding pay. An example-I was hired as one of 2 assistant executive pastry chefs for a 5 diamond hotel (which will remain namless). We served 5 restaurants, a night club, banquets facilities for 2,500 guests and 750 rooms. At that point, I had 12 years of experience in fine dining and hotel food service. I second in command of 14 pastry cooks and bakers over 3 daily 8 hour shifts. Within 2 months of hiring me, they hired the 2nd asst. PC, straight form the CIA, with no working experience other than a 3 month internship for $4,000 more per year than me. If the 3rd shift baker did not show up, it was me that got the call to come in at 1AM, not the new kid, because everyone knew he couldn't organize himself out of a paper bag.
The reality of food service is: 1-expect to work long hours every day of every week. 2-all of those hours are spent on your feet and often lifting and carrying heavy or awkward loads. 3-if your are female, expect $.68 for every $1 your male collegues receive. 4-benefits packages come only with larger chains and hotels; most smaller, fine dining operations do not offer any insurance benefits. 5-Culinary school graduates can expect $12.10 an hour at the finest restaurants in NYC-but expect to work at least a 60 hour week, more often 80-90, cutting that pay roughly in half. That's salaried pay, meaning you do NOT receive time-and-a-half for overtime. If you work 80 hours per week at $12.10/hour there is absolutely no way to live in Manhattan where studio (read one room) apt. rentals start at $2,500 per month (usually in poor neighborhoods).

That being said, if I had it to do over again, I think I would take a different track. However, I am proud of my work experience and knowledge that serves me well in my current vocation. Just be very careful (meaning do your research) about what you want-you just might get it.

[Anneke]

Afra, unfortunately, passion and earning potential do not always go hand in hand unless your passion is corporate finance or plastic surgery. I don't think any of us is in it for the money, which doesn't mean that you can't EVENTUALLY earn a half decent living. I don't think that it is responsible for anyone, especially your teachers to tell you that you'll be making much money because that's just not the reality. I think a very small percentage of those who enter the culinary world can make the big bucks if they have a good business sense, strong work ethics and the right contacts. Work hard and you'll get there too!

[Anneke]

Foodnfoto: that was a great post. Thanks for that information, it was very useful. It reinforces my own belief that restaurant experience is crucial to one's training but should be used as a stepping stone for a more lucrative career. At least, that's what my objective is, hence my interest in catering.

[GastroNaut]

Ive been out of my apprenticeship for 17 years or so. I have loved the industry esp during the 80's where everyone was dining out courtesy of the businesses. Head Chefs in that time were earning twice what i am now. This may not be global. Here in Australia it seems to be that the staff are descreasing and profits expand. Dont get me wrong i love the food industry.
Kitchenhands can earn more than a qualified chef here.... Is there any Aussies here that agree with this?
Cooking has been with my family for generations with my great grand father, grandfather, grandmother, father and 2 brothers, one sister and 2 cousins chefs. The younger generation of chefs seem to agree with me on the low pay stuff. My parents and grand parents made great livings out of the industry.
:-)

[Shimmer]

Foodnfoto-

By saying you would take a different track, do you mean a different career or a different direction within this field? Which direction would have been better for you?

...

I'm still deciding if all of this is for me. I sure like to cook, I really do. But I've been doing it full-time for a week and it is TOUGH. I'm learning a lot, but what Greg said about going through every single emotion every single day is true. Sometimes when I get home I am so tired and have felt so many things- frustration, anger, "woops!", happiness, laughter, worn-out, exhilarated, etc, etc, that I just sit and cry for a few minutes and let it all out. Especially since the last thing I do every night before going home is clean the flat-top grill, and burn at least two fingers....

So I don't have answers if its worth it or not. I think that is a decision we all have to make, and I'm still deciding.

~~Shimmer~~

[Anneke]

Shimmer, if I could send you an electronic hug, I would! Don't despair! THings will get easier very quickly. I was in your shoes just 2 months ago and believe me, I don't feel the exhaustion that I felt then.

What I can tell you is that it's sometimes hard to reconcile your passion for food with the gruelling and somewhat repetitive work of a professional kitchen. But at this stage, do it for learning. I sometimes get depressed at work because I forget that this (garde manger) is not what I'll be doing for the rest of my life. I have to remind myself that I'm here to learn, to pick up some skills that I will apply someday to my own business. You should try to focus on that too. If your passion is food, then let your passion lead the way; it doesn't have to be the restaurant kitchen, it might take you to the bake shop, to food writing, to catering. There are so many other venues that I don't even know about! Explore them and follow your heart!

[CampChef]

I've been in this biz in one way or another for over 20 years, and I can't imagine doing anything else, beleive me I tried a couple of times. If food is in your blood, you've got no choice but to pursue this industry.
As far as unions go, they scare me. I've seen what they've done to other industries, and I really don't want to see that happen to us. There is enough battling between FOH and BOH, between BOH and admin, without a union rep stirring it up for kicks and giggles. I would much rather negotiate my own package, and put a few bucks away than give those bucks to a union.
When it comes to pay, it's all relative. I've worked everywhere from big city places to some Mom & Pop kind of joints and it comes down to quality of life. To get that quality, I think you have to get out of the city. That $12.00 an hour goes an awfully long way in SW Michigan, and the job market around here is so good, you can probably get a lot more. But it still comes down to the passion. If you're in this biz to be the next Emeril, get out. If the food is in your soul, you can't.

[cape chef]

Shimmer...It's ok to cry.

This buisness is about emotion.
I think the most creative people wear there emotions on there sleeve.It can make you vunarable,but thats ok to.
Anneke gives you very sound advice. Remember your learning and growing. try to stay focused on your goals.Like said before by Anneke,there are so many avenues you can take in the biz. Explore,experence and enjoy.

my best wishes for a clear head and a steady hand
cc

[friedparsley]

I'm not in it for the money. Having said that, I make pretty good money being a chef. The best thing about being a chef is that sometimes I don't feel like I'm working, I'm just cooking. For example, I came into the restaurant a couple hours early and made my soups for the weekend.(shrimp bisque and carrot-ginger) I had the whole kitchen to myself and I just felt great. I truly enjoyed being there in the kitchen making soup, not one time today did I think of myself as being at work, instead I was just doing what I do. Then the other cooks arrived, next, the waitresses, and then the customers. This is my other favorite part of being a Chef. I love the challenge of getting the food out as quickly and as perfectly as I can. When your in the middle of a rush and all of your cooks are working together as a team, there isn't a better feeling in the world. Just thinking about it makes me want to go cook something.

[W.DeBord]

I've been in this business for many, many years. I understand the passion, the creativity and love we all must have for it to remain actively cooking in this industry.

If you read many of your comments it sounds as if many of you think it's a sin to want good money because you get a job you love in return. I find that sad and shocking!

Being a talented chef requires intelligence and physical endurance! We are not dumb thugs that couldn't acheive happiness and success in other fields.

Yes, many kitchens are MUCH better then they used to be years ago. But why shouldn't we strive for better working schedules, pay and benifits. Unions are either loved or hated... . (Regardless of what you call your organization) unless the majority of people all strive for common life improving goals the owners will never be forced to respect their talent with pay and benifits appropreiate to the skill involved.

The T.V. chefs have done ALOT to raise the awareness and knowledge of our customers. I think organizing is a good thing, I think we do that each time we actively partake in comunicating at professional cooking web site. We all reach out to each other for help and advice to better our situations why not work in unity to make working in a kitchen a better paid and respected field?

[W.DeBord]

Lets talk money.....I make around $40,000. I've been looking alot lately at the jobs posted on the internet. It's very rare to see a pastry chef job list higher than $32,000. a year. Footnote makes a great point, you have to really look at how many hours you work. Many people are making below min. wage when the add up their hours.

I'm a salaried employee, when I work over time they must by our state law pay me something for my time. When I'm on OT making that wedding cake or sweet table I'm getting paided less than $7.00 hr. I get to look across the room and watch everyone else in the whole building getting paid more money. I think to myself what if I got sick at that moment, who has the skill to step in and finish making this wedding cake? No one, yet at this moment I'm worth less then anyone else.


I live in a far out suburb of Chicago (1* hr. drive from the city). The further out you live the less expensive the houses are. The least expensive houses in the suburbs start at $150,000.. That will get you a small 3 bedroom ranch with one car garage that needs work! $40,000. dollars a year is not enough to pay the mortgage on a $150,000. house plus live... and god forbid have a family.

Their are sites on the net that do wage comparisions. Where do our kitchen jobs rank?

Do bus drivers make more money???? In Chicago they sure do!

As you grow older what kind of job security do you have? I have none. I hope my body holds out and that my skills remain greater than the new kid entering the field. I don't mean I want a union forcing someone to keep me employeed but I don't want to be thrown out because I can't carry my 50 lb. bag of flour anymore either.

I can contribute to my own 401K and can purchase insurance thru my job. I have no other benifits. I think someone else definately could have negotiated a better deal for me! I think if wages were out in the open we'd all get better pay.

Many of the people in this professionl are very young. Many leave in their twentys seeking out jobs that pay more and work less. How many people over 50 work in your kitchen? Have you really ever stopped to think about why they leave? Do you really see yourself growing old in a kitchen?


You all think you'll grow old in your own kitchen. Do you know that the stats are like 3 out of 4 new businesses don't make it. Did you learn business management in the kitchen?
How much money will you have saved to open this business from your job that barely pays the rent now?

How can you all believe that this industry doesn't need improvement? How can you believe that you'll be the one who'll make the decent money?

[CampChef]

Youch! Everywhere I've worked the highest paid people per hour were the servers. Next came the line cooks, then the hostesses, then the chefs. I always got a pretty good salary, but I have always tried to live far away from the cities. I also remeber what my first chef boss told me and it has always held true; "When you start counting how many hours a week you work, it's time to get another job." I have always held to that, and when I start counting hours, I have to take a real hard look at what I'm doing and where I'm at. I've moved a couple of times because of it. I find it a little tougher now to move because I have three kids, and I don't want to make them switch schools again. But if it gets bad enough, I will.

[foodnfoto]

Camp Chef-I think your first chef-boss's advice is bogus. You do have to count number of hours you work when on salary. You should also, if bieing paid a salary, determine what percentage of your work is production and what % is administrative. The US dept of Labor is cracking down on businesses that exploit production workers by paying salaries without OT. Somehow, the foodservice industry excapes hard scrutiny, but I have been involved in a few cases that were investigated. Management was fined severely and back wages paid to these workers for overtime. I am wishing now that I knew these rules back when I worked those Hotel jobs where I adveraged 109 hours/week of solid production. I believe that Labor Dept. rules require salaried workers to spend at least 75% of their time doing administrative work. In addition, the admin./production ratio has to be constistent throughout the management of the organization. Once again, I beleive food service workers get little protection under these regs.