Why So Few Women Are Great Chefs?

[beefcheeks]

Originally Posted by Jim

... Merely referring to men as better leaders because they are, well, men is not really a valid point. Nor is it an arguable point. It is just prejudice, in plain English...

This must be meant for me. I now realize how this statement could be interpreted to cause insult. I showed it to my girlfriend and she gave me a slap...OUCH!! I sincerely apologize to those who took offense to this statement. It was not my intention to demean our female colleagues by referring them incapable to lead. I am simply stating an opinion based on my work related experiences with women. I know the're women out there who are just as capable, or even better than men to lead, I've just never seen them ...at least not in a kitchen that employs 60 or so cooks. In my 10 years here, we've gone through roughly 6-8 ECs. All of them men.

On the other hand, is it a pejudice remark if I say women are better homemakers than men? Or boys are better at climbing trees than girls? How about Japanese are better sushi chefs than Americans? Do you know that a woman cannot be a sushi chef in Japan because of her body temperature? Is this prejudice? Or an opinion based on actual observable experience? This is the angle I was going for. No malice intended.

With that, I will refrain from posting more on this thread due to the sensitivities it provokes and the percieved ugliness it seems to bring out in some of us. Once again, I hope you can accept my apology, I meant no harm... and yes ldts60, it's all your fault (j/k)

Well, I better close out now. I see my girlfriend coming and shes making a fist.

[Frizbee]

Can I say that in this day and age we are entirely too PC. I think we shouldn’t be afraid to broach any conversation, as long as it remains sensible. Sex discrimination is something I feel we, as enlightened adults should be able to discuss intelligently. Sticking our heads in the sand and stating that we shouldn’t even discuss it I think is absurd. And how can we move through this or any issue and make changes one position/person at a time, if we can’t even discuss it? As a woman I don’t feel that I have read anything that I feel has been of a flaming nature.
The statement Beefcheeks made about men being better leaders, which he quickly retracted, I think is a matter of difference. Women are a different type of leader, not better or worse, just different. I learned in a leadership class, that men usually implement authoritative leadership styles, whereas women utilize more charismatic leadership, evoking greater communication, and emotional skills. Not better or worse, just different.
So the poster originally asked…why so few women are great chefs. I chimed in on my personal experiences and told the ways I try and assimilate into this society of cooks. I downplay my gender, because ultimately I understand that I am fighting an uphill battle. To me assimilation is the key, trying to win by leveling the field as much as I can.
Someone brought up that there are also few female construction workers. Well many years ago, I was a certified asbestos removal worker. I worked on a small crew and initially my gender alone was a distraction. Well I jumped in and worked alongside of the men, and in a couple of weeks I was accepted, and respected for working just as hard as I possibly could. They respected my work ethic.
I have been working in the kitchen much longer than I worked construction. I have personally found this is an alpha-attitude industry, more so than with construction workers or even other industries I have worked in. I find this alpha attitude is what separates us from the masses. Therein for me lies the difference. It is because of my alpha female attitude that I find a home in this industry.
Fear is instilled in a man when someone he deems as a threat moves in to his territory. The sting is amplified when that threat is a woman. The thing that makes me laugh the loudest is that the men I have worked for or with that have been the most encouraging, were able to be so because I wasn’t a threat to them, or their position. It is only those who fear they have something to loose to me or any other woman for that matter that become combative or aggressive. It’s natural, and perfectly biological.

The saying goes…we’ve come along way baby….but we have much further to go.
Frizbee

[Greg]

Great post Frizbee. For the record, we're not trying to discourage discussion, here. Jim would have locked down the thread if that were the case. As moderators, it's our job to encourage discussion, actually. We're just trying to make sure the discussion stays constructive.

[Pete]

Well said Frizbee. I too believe that our society has become too PC. It's getting to the point that we can't discuss the differences between anyone for fear of offending. I stand firmly by my first post, in this discussion, basically stating I could care less about age, gender, race, nationality when it comes to people in my kitchen. My only criteria is their ability to cook, their attitude, and their willingness to follow my lead. That said, I do think there are major differences between men and women. It's scientific fact that men and women approach things differently, that their minds work in slightly different ways, that they view the world slightly differently due to sexual differences. In no way does this imply that one is better than the other, just slightly different. It is possible to extole our differences without resorting to the "whose better" argument.

[ChefJeannine]

well, I'm a woman chef. I have clawed my way up through the ranks over the years. I am now the exec at an upscale inn and have been running kitchens for 8 years. In my current position, I have won awards, make appearances in the local media and write a food column for a local paper.

I run my kitchen with the expectation that everyone just needs to do their job and not have an ego involved. I want it to be a partnership not a test of wills or skills. I want to teach my young sous chefs as they get out of school the whys and wherefores and the shortcuts that I have learned over the years, the stuff they dont teach in cooking school. I want to put out great food and let the plates speak volumes.


I worked with my share of male chefs who screamed, threw things and degraded me. I knew I never wanted to be that kind of chef. I also never let people walk all over me and always spoke up if I felt that I was being disrespected. I never lost a job for doing this. And I can hold my own against any man or woman in the kitchen. We are all people after all!

I think if women get into this business and expect to be humiliated , then it will happen. If they stand up for themselves from the beginning, after a little testing by the boys, it will stop. It always did for me.

[Devotay]

No male chef has had a greater impact on American cuisine than Alice Waters.

I also find it a little disappointing that we've made it trough 34 posts before anyone mentioned James Beard Award nominee Lucia Watson or James beard Award Winner Odessa Piper.

I agree with those who have said here that women in the industry will take great strides forward when they stop trying to be great woman chefs and simply try to be great chefs.

By the way, my sous chef is a woman, and a great sous chef (neither because or in spite of being a woman)