How to create better wages for Cooks?

[Laprise]

A greate way to help this situation is for head chefs to only hire certified cooks in their kitchens. The more restaurants hires non-certified cooks, the more it undermine our industry and skills.

I am all for hiring apprentices, but that's it. Everyone else should be certified!

[DanBrown]

It seems you and I see everything from very different perspectives.

Rather than getting angry again, as seems to be my automatic response to every post you make, I decided to evaluate where you are from as a possible source of your statement.

In Canada, perhaps there isn't a glut of immigrants from Central America who are phenomenal cooks and will work much harder, with better attention to detail, and at a lower wage than an goofball kid who's been to "cooking camp", and earned his/her CC. Perhaps you're trying to take an Escoffier-like stance on improving working conditions, perhaps you don't care about profit.

As this most recent statement means you would never hire me (as a 24 year veteran without a CC, with the title Chef de Cuisine) or anyone like me, I think you're pushing out one of the best possible resources, but you can run your business as you choose.

DB

[panini]

Laprise,
certified by who?
pan

[Laprise]

Hey Dan, don't worry, to each his own

I do think that when you hire a veteran, you hire experience and skills. Papers or not...A veteran runs on acquired rights!

BUT when you hire a young cook without papers, you do undermine culinary schools, and every cooks that come out with a 1, 2, 3, or 4 years diploma.

Profit has nothing to do with Central American workers, it has to do with properly managing your work force and product.
In both USA and Canada, companies look to hire oversee's workers for cheap, sometime they move the production to India or China, and sometime they bring the labour in there own country to work the employees for cheap wages. Holland America does it with the Philippino workers on all their ships!

YES, it is your choice, but I choose to had positive to my trade and my country. If I do hire a non-certified cook, it is as an apprentice! SO that one day he can be certifed too!

[panini]

Still trying to figure out. certified by who?
a culinary degree, AFC,.. what would qualify as certified?
pan
Keeping in mind that in the US there are no certifications to get into the industry.

[Laprise]

A certfication...

A culinary art diploma, a technical culinary art diploma, a cooking school diploma, certifcation from AFC, Red Seal, or any international certifications...

If the cook went to a culinary school, whether it is an unknown school, or whether it is the CIA or Cordon Bleu, it is extremely important to hire certified cooks.

Now, you do bring a good point, yes it would be nice to have one single certification for all... but not in my life time so until we do, a CULINARY ART DIPLOMA will do!

[pastrytracy]

Well, I think that just because someone is certified or went to school does not mean that they can work in a restaurant kitchen. Sure, they may have the skills, but can they hold up under the pressure of a dinner rush? I did not go to culinary school, I'm a rookie, but I am super grateful that I was hired because I love my job and have discovered that with practice, I am going to be pretty good at what I do. I may not have all of the knowledge that can be acquired in a classroom setting, but I will and it will be practical because it was learned in a real life situation. I have been a manager in a food service establishment and have an Associates in Restaurant Management (doubt if I'll be a manager again though)...so I know a little about hiring and what I look for in an employee. I just think that passion and the desire for knowledge outweigh a certification sometimes.

[foodpump]

As someone with a European apprenticeship and over 20 years of experience in 4 and 5 star houses under my belt, I don't even bother looking at certifications on resumes, especially in Vancouver. It's no secret that I don't see eye to eye with "cooking schools", most of which are excuses to get young kids from distant lands into this country without paying the heavy tuition needed for University. I've had my share of students, and their hopes, dreams and fantasies.

Cooks want a better wage? Be a better cook. I'll sit up and scream for a cook who can pump out 100+ covers a night without a complaint and who can get along with co-workers, and can clean up after himself. What do you want, 18, 20, 22 $ an hour? I'll pay! And I don't care what country the guy/gal is from or even if they can speak passable English...

[panini]

Well, I guess I dissagree.
I don't believe that's legal. I would hate to discriminate against those who can't afford school. I also have some insight( just here locally) to the so- called chef schools. I personally know 2, that the two years spent would be better off in the field, not to mention the money.
Anyway, I just can't help thinking this post is meant to insight. I'm not going to fall for it. I personally don't know of any Chef who would be on board with this.
So to all those self starters in the field without some type of paper, lets wait for additional posts before going off.
Pastrytracy, don't let anything calm your passion. I'm right there with you.
I have enough paper in my portfolio to start a small fire. Does'nt make me better than anyone else.Or qualified to hire.
NOTE: Let me also say, that I'm NOT opposed to any type of education.
My head is still spinning on how a cook without. as you say, some sort of papers, undermines culinay schools. You don't think Culinary Schools are not profit driven? What percentage, buy their papers vs earn their papers. What percentage of instructors have gone from school to teaching without being in the field.
Crap, I fell for it. You would be right at home in the US with the current team.
I'm typing this like Lewis Black is spouting it.

[Bijoink]

Laprise you mean like ServSafe or what? What about people who are not but are willing to work and actually work hard to make you successful. What about guys like me, who cant afford culinary school at this point or probably wont for a long time? Im not angry im just putting some 2 cents in a thought of mind.

[cape chef]

I'm also not going to fall for what i believe is the true meaning behind this thread. I will however say that I spent 25 years in some extremely demanding kitchens. I now teach at a culinary school. I would never had taken this job if I had not been in the trenches for so long. I would have no right what so ever to "teach".In the 6 years I've been on this forum I have used the word passion a million times, passion, combined with solid training (school or not) is the key. I have worked with some outstanding culinarians who do not have "papers" I have worked with graduates of culinary school who are shoe makers.There are great cooks and fair cooks, and there are great teachers and fair teachers.

[Jim]

I would gladly have a plumber with 5 years of experience work on my house rather than one that just finished a course, piece of paper in hand.

[foodpump]

Ditto for the surgeon who did my Dad's cataracts last sumer....

[Peachcreek]

I thought the question here was about raising wages for cooks. We tip share equally with the front and back of the house. Have been for the last 9 years. Almost doubles their hourly wages.
If we do whats right, all of a sudden the semantical bs is seen for what it is. Semantical bs.

All the best. All the time.

Peachcreek.
Proud as h8ll of my 12th grade education....

[Laprise]

Ok,

I am NOT saying that a cook with paper is better!
I am saying everytime you hire someone without papers, you are part of the problem at the base of this question which is; wage will never go up if anyone can do the job. If only professional certified chef can do the jobs, than the salary will increase with time a long time...

Yes, if the cook works harder he can get more money, of course!

Please try to compare apple and apple! A carpenter with 5 years experience and no school, cannot be compared to a carpenter with papers just out of school!

The culinary trade is held back by profit, that is the real reason isn't it? You are now a head chef somewhere, so who cares about paper or not, you have to hit your labor cost target to keep your job! SO, you hire people from Central America to save money and you managed to pursuade yourself that it's better! good fo you... that thinking is not far from child labor!

They don't ask an accountant and a lawyer if a diploma is needed to practice, they tell an accountant and lawyer you need a diploma to pratictice. Yes, I am sure someone off the street could do their job, and well too, but when IRS is knocking on your door, who are going to call? well it does not matter, bacause only the certified accountant and certified lawyer can actually sign the papers!

It's not about the actual dipoma people, it's about the fact that if you can only hire certified people, corporation will adjust as such and have to pay more, it become a TRADE that his recognized on a higher level.