Chefs Responsibility

[Chef Kaiser]

Hi,

I have been for some weeks again on this forum here after 2 years. It cam to my mind again, that some young professionals are asking some very basic questions, which 30 years ago an old professional would have answered to a young cook right out.

I discovered, the confusion of chefs with there questions and answers on this site and the many books they are refering too.

However what are the true teaching basics in culinary arts. Well that is a question maybe one or the other chef should think about.

What are the true culinary basics, do you still remember where the milk comes from and to understand the natural composition of milk and the effects of milk when using it in the kitchen, pastry or bakery? So have all ingredients there effects and harmony, but how do you combine them?

just think about it, what you really know and understand as a Chef, and not having searched the interenet and talk smart about it. Do you really have the experience?

Regards Chef Kaiser

[foodnfoto]

I don't really understand your question, Kaiser.

[AprilB]

I think I understand.
30 years ago people didn't have the internet to download a recipe to follow. You actually had to know your ingredients and you would be apprenticed by someone who knew. Often you did have to make it up. You were limited by your imagination, who you knew and the books you had.

In spite of culinary schooling, nowadays it does seem like people are asking questions that should be fundamentally obvious.

But who's fault is that? No telling.

We all have different bents on our own interpretation of food. We all have different ways of expressing ourselves in our dishes and the way we interact. We all have different types of egos, and deal with what we do in different ways. That's what makes horseraces, right?

We are incredibly lucky in this day and age to be able to share with literally thousands of people in the food industry to help stimulate our individual imaginations.

We don't just have to rely on our own Executive Chef solely for his experience, we can tap the information of thousands of years of culinary skills.

Does this make us less chefs than people who learned in the old school? Having to re-invent the wheel every dish you make?

I don't agree that you need to know how the cow makes milk in order to make pastry cream.

Just like you don't have to know how gasoline is made in order to put it in your car.

April

[blueschef]

I think chef K makes a very relivent point. You cannot learn how to cook from a book, or to some extent from a teacher. You have to play with the food, you should have the drive and desire to learn how, when and where everything comes from as well as how to handle it, store it, etc.

I remember when I was very young, 8 years old to be exact, I started reading cookbooks and COOKING, I was very curious how things worked, where they came from and how I could get them.

I would catch, clean and cook my own fish, crawfish, crabs, frogs, etc.

It does get old sometimes reading what I consider some young chefs here who I do not think take the profession as a lifestyle, love, passion and carreir. To be a true chef requires more mental and physical intitution than just about any profession (excluding just about any artist).

When I decided to be a chef (again at 8) I was voracious in my quest for knowlege I was working a cold station standing on a milk crate and watching everything that went on in the kitchen. I would take a dishwashing job to watch the chefs/cooks do there thing. When I turned 12 I was able to get a cooks job with a family friend and learned a ton. As I got older I would jump from chef to chef to learn how and whoy they did things. I was fearless and would do anything in a kitchen Pots, pans, dishwashing, CLEANING, scrubbing, I would lay on the floor in muck to clean under equiptment because I hated the smell and filth of a dirty kitchen (and still do). All this time I was buying and reading cookbooks and COOKING AT HOME after work, trying and expirmenting with what the authors said and teaching myself.

I took all the abuse and smackdowns from REAL CHEFS (not some wanna be) and gained there respect for my dedication and voracious appetite for anything kitchen/food related.

Yes you should know how a cow makes milk and what they are fed to make it and how that affects the taste. Just like anything else it is your medium and your basis for everything you do and you should know it well. Why buy organic vegetables? Why buy wild caught fish? Why buy free range Meats? Why ask about freshness? Because they all matter. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear!

I can honestly say that if I was a "chef" or a cook asking some of these basic questions to my mentors after they embarassed me in front of everyone they would go tell me to look it up and learn for yourself!

Sorry about the rant but I have been reading plenty here and Chef K is one smart dude as well as some others here with some verry good knowlege on the basics lacking in some of the folks.

[LogghiB]

Originally Posted by blueschef

To be a true chef requires more mental and physical intitution than just about any profession (excluding just about any artist).

Uh, what do you mean by this statement?

[nowIamone]

I'm not a Chef, and am uncomfortable when referred to as one. But I do all the cooking in my fairly successful dinner house restaurant.

What's interesting to me is telling people that "it's not rocket science, exact quantities are not as important as the technique, or how you treat the food." Develop the skills; saute, braise, coach the flavors along, layer them so there is depth.

You can cook onion in a skillet; or you can glaze it, brown it so it sweetens, adds color, texture and becomes an enhancement to the finished product; or then again you can cook it with some onion.

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by AprilB

I think I understand.
30 years ago people didn't have the internet to download a recipe to follow. You actually had to know your ingredients and you would be apprenticed by someone who knew. Often you did have to make it up. You were limited by your imagination, who you knew and the books you had.

In spite of culinary schooling, nowadays it does seem like people are asking questions that should be fundamentally obvious.

But who's fault is that? No telling.

We all have different bents on our own interpretation of food. We all have different ways of expressing ourselves in our dishes and the way we interact. We all have different types of egos, and deal with what we do in different ways. That's what makes horseraces, right?

We are incredibly lucky in this day and age to be able to share with literally thousands of people in the food industry to help stimulate our individual imaginations.

We don't just have to rely on our own Executive Chef solely for his experience, we can tap the information of thousands of years of culinary skills.

Does this make us less chefs than people who learned in the old school? Having to re-invent the wheel every dish you make?

I don't agree that you need to know how the cow makes milk in order to make pastry cream.

Just like you don't have to know how gasoline is made in order to put it in your car.

April

hi April,

so it seems that you are cooking, like Dexter in Cartoon Net Work is testing things in his labratory.

As you wrote:
I don't agree that you need to know how the cow makes milk in order to make pastry cream.

As a chef you should know the nutritional composition of all main ingredients you work with, as we have the so called effects of water, carbohydrate, fat and proteins in cooking. Therefore depending on what you cook and understand these basics, you are not guessing and therefore you even can become more playful in creating dishes.

I believe all pastry chefs on this site will agree with me, as especially in the pastry and bakery kitchen it is from greatest importance to understand this effects or in the US you call it cooking sience.

regards

[blueschef]

What I was trying to say is that our job is as much art as real physical hard labor. It requires, in my opnion, more "work" by combining the mental and physical effort than most jobs I know of. Usualy, in my observation, a regular job is one or the other, in our profession I feel it is an extrodinary combination of both.

[chefa1a]

you know what someone told me a long time ago??

it takes all your life to learn how to cook and master it

and 15 minutes to become a chef ( a job interview and title)

I try and educate people and share what I can, but hard work and sweat is the only way to really succeed in this buisness

[AprilB]

LOL...

I said I don't really think I need to know how a cow makes it (like tons of hay to the 4 stomachs to the udder...) to be relevant in culinary skills. My dad worked his family farm in Iowa for decades and raised...yes...dairy cows...the knowledge he imparted to me about the process didn't really help in my making any kind of flan, custard or...whatever.

I guarantee that not many chefs/cooks in any capacity (not saying all) consciously think about what the chemical composition is every time they add a cup of milk or anything to a dish.

A lot of it is intuitive based on learning to use it, how it behaves and what tastes it adds.

What do you do when you prepare or invent a dish? Do you sit and agonize over the chemistry before you make a dish? Or do you rely on your instincts and your inherent knowledge and wisdom?

And just who is doing the Dexter Lab thing?
I'd have to say I'm more Klingon...I trust my instincts...

Food...it's all good...<except when it's not...*grin*>

April

[Rivitman]

In the states, there isn't much of an apprecticeship culture left, as there is overseas.
Culinary schools crank out the grads, and yes they do have a basic skillset. But many of them simply cannot cope with a tough day in the kitchen. Combine labor laws with chef's under pressure to maximize profits, and many young people that might benefit from such an experience either give up, or simply take to many months or years to get up to speed.

We do use culinary students in our kitchen on a part time basis. We only ask that their school chef's send us serious students, They generally do well, according to whatever level of training they are at, and get paid. But some are also shocked by the volume and pace, never to be seen again. This is a pity as most we actually thought did a pretty fair job in their brief time with us. A formal apprenticship might have induced them to stick it out.

[Andrew563]

Originally Posted by chefa1a

you know what someone told me a long time ago??

it takes all your life to learn how to cook and master it

and 15 minutes to become a chef ( a job interview and title)

I try and educate people and share what I can, but hard work and sweat is the only way to really succeed in this buisness

Thats the best statement I have heard concerning the word "chef"

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by AprilB

LOL...

I said I don't really think I need to know how a cow makes it (like tons of hay to the 4 stomachs to the udder...) to be relevant in culinary skills. My dad worked his family farm in Iowa for decades and raised...yes...dairy cows...the knowledge he imparted to me about the process didn't really help in my making any kind of flan, custard or...whatever.

I guarantee that not many chefs/cooks in any capacity (not saying all) consciously think about what the chemical composition is every time they add a cup of milk or anything to a dish.

A lot of it is intuitive based on learning to use it, how it behaves and what tastes it adds.

What do you do when you prepare or invent a dish? Do you sit and agonize over the chemistry before you make a dish? Or do you rely on your instincts and your inherent knowledge and wisdom?

And just who is doing the Dexter Lab thing?
I'd have to say I'm more Klingon...I trust my instincts...

Food...it's all good...<except when it's not...*grin*>

April

Hi April,

You know, there are many ways to live life, and there are many ways to be a Chef and many ways to cook food.

However there are very clear bases in culinary arts and these bases one rather manages before Rocking and Rolling.

It sound to me, when you would teach an apprentice to make a basic white sauce, that you would tell him; "just take some butter and flour, combine them in a pan, add liquid and cook it and lets see if we get lucky.

I do believe, that especially when teaching young chefs, it is important, that these very fundamental basics are respected and taught right. Even the smallest details of proportions, like for one liter of white sauce, we prepare a roux made off 40 grams of butter and 50 grams of flour. Or further when adding the liquid to the hot roux, it should be cold, to prevent lumps. Further the basic sauce at this point, which is called a veloute, needs to be simmered for at least 15 to 20 minutes. Well for what ever reason and WHY!

Cooking for any professional is not a matter of taking chances and get lucky with it. Cooking is one of the greatest arts of accurancy as consistency and taste at all times matters to the customers and the chef especially, hence that is the reason why, we record all details, mise en place and methods on recipe cards.

regards

[blueschef]

bravo ChefK - I do beleive that inculcation is the best method to learn how to be a good chef. Make something enough times (properly) and you never forget it.

and chefa1a - The jacket don't make the chef!

[AprilB]

Ahem...Inculcate...sounds kind of harsh...to impress on someone's mind with frequent and forceful repetition?

Wow...sounds like brainwashing in WWII.
Silly me, and I thought cooking was fun...

However, what Blueschef said is what I've been saying all along.

You don't need to know how the hay becomes milk, only that after preparing a variety of dishes using the same items, your instincts just know how milk will behave. I'm virtually certain that most decent chefs don't consult their chemistry manuals to determine the fat content of milk every time they make flan.

Look at Iron Chef, or Iron Chef America. Great Chefs from all over the planet. Talk about 'on the fly' cooking. I didn't see a manual in sight. Why? <I wonder quietly to myself> It was all instinct as to how to prepare these items or what combination you could potentially use to create great dishes. AT this point Chefs aren't re-inventing the wheel, they're into rocket science.
Granted some didn't work, but most did.

History is nice, but eet doesn't mattah now...eet ees een dah pahst! (Ok, so tell me I'm the only one with kids that watched Lion King 8 zillion times) If we were stuck with the methods of hundreds of years ago, we wouldn't be cooking with gas or electricity, microwaves, anything perishable past
a day or so, a huge number of exotic ingredients, nonstick pans, stainless steel, not to mention the resources of being able to talk to hundreds of talented chefs throughout the world via ... well... HERE! Heck, there wouldn't even BE foodTV.

It's called pushing the envelope. American's tend to be good at that. (The West wasn't won eating snails)

I actually was making a point that agreed with some of his presumptions, but I'm sorry...I'm beginning to believe that 'Chef' K is arguing just for argument sake. My Swiss step father in law was really good at it.
I never said don't measure anything. I did find a tad bit of condescending tone in his pontifications. Perhaps there's a language barrier?
In any event...apparently CK doesn't quite get the jist of my posts.

Hey, so how does hay become milk?

April