"cooking with a loaded gun" food intolerance

[2BACHEF]

Originally Posted by OregonYeti

I think the "you're not welcome" phrase is what set a lot of people off. I don't think it was meant the same way we would take it in the USA. I think it's a cultural difference in expressions, since tchef seems quite civil and well-mannered.

I think you may be right. Thanks

[Jim]

Interesting topic with many opinions. And they are just that... opinions based on professional experience. So, dear forum members, please use professional decorum and chose your words carefully. The subtle nuance of the spoken word can be lost when typed. Do not attack other members for their choice of words nor resort to profanity to color your own posts. This forum has been created in the spirit of learning, sharing and communicating with others. In other words - Keep it Professional.

[tchef]

Harsh words or frustration! Possibly even more so if you were to be on the receiving end verbally, but at no point was there ever Malice, Disrespect (to there’s or any other patrons life styles habits ect) nor was prejudice involved in a now dealt with manner.

“please leave” again holding my hand up admittedly maybe this should have been followed with some explanation, but would it have turned out differently?

“you see sir , miss, our chef with over 30years in the industry has created for his discerning diners dishes that not only he believes in, but through a “ flawless cooking” reputation and unquestionable standard blah blah blah” You see I’m not trying to say that I can accommodate your special needs, but what I’m saying is I don’t feel I should have to.

My esteemed colleagues Opinions are a great thing-however Options would be a compromise “I like my food the way it is, its purpose, texture, exacting ingredient, balance of flavour but above all the pleasure it gives”

Regards

[foodpump]

I think the whole problem lays in the way this situation was presented to the restaurant. In my last post I pointed out that there is a HUGE difference in asking for special requests in ADVANCE (I.e withsome prior warning) and demanding special requests at the last minute, during a dinner rush.

Yes, we should all be tolerant of special requests, and the smart business owner will use this to his/her advantage. But for a customer to waltz into a place that does not cater to special requests, and demand special requests at the last minute is a bit below the belt.

To those students or to those posters who have never owned or operated a business, I will truly "feel" for you when you are treated like a common criminal by local Gov't authorities when an ex-employee lodges a trumped up complaint against you, when a slime-ball customer imports broken glass or insects and puts them in his food and then files a trumped up lawsuit, or someone with faux allegeries decides to file a lawsuit. If and when however a lawsuit comes around because of illness/death/messed up life with REAL allergies, I want to be as far, far away as possible.

[the_seraphim]

Originally Posted by mr.miagi

i had a women phone today(i always ask to speak personally to any vegi,s or allergy people so i hear first had their req.its for a wedding of 400.she has allergies to lactose,citrus,yeast and PORK(NO SHES NOT JEWISH)now i,m no prof but i,ve been told a lot of people who think they have allergies are simply in their head.i know there are a lot out there with real probs but i feel a lot of people out there are making are job harder by folowing a fad.(rant over.)

somebody told me at work before that they were allergic to turkey,

yeah bullshens... theres no way you can be allergic to turkey and not pork/gammon/beef

there are no unique particles in turkey that are allergens that arent in pork...

somebody correct me if im wrong

[foodnfoto]

Actually, Seraphim, there are compounds in turkey that can trigger problems for people with Crohn's disease and IBS (irritable bowel syndrome). Also, turkey is problematic for people who have kidney disease due to its high phosphorus and potassium levels. Chicken and certain cuts of beef and pork do not have these compounds or high mineral levels.

A lot of this problem between chefs and people who have problems with certain foods stems from the fact that recent advances in medical research have clarified the relationship of some ailments to diet. For example, 20 years ago, people who had symptoms of celiac disease just suffered until breakthroughs in nutritional research determined that gluten was the trigger for the problem. Eliminating gluten from the diet of patients radically improved their health and symptoms abated. Thus, we have the growth of people using nutritional methods to control their symptoms. People who had nut allergies forty years ago just died from mysterious causes until it was determined that the chemical compounds in nuts led to anaphylaxis.

Another example-I develop recipes for people with kidney disease. It's very tricky to eat a healthy, balanced diet when your kidneys cannot filter out excess minerals like calcium, phosphorus and potassium. Some meats, grains, all beans and nuts, and some fruits and vegetables must be eliminated from their diets due to the high mineral content. The build up of these minerals causes all kinds of problems and can lead to heart disease, diabetes and ultimately kidney failure.

If you wanted to have a nice dinner out with family or friends, would you want to reveal your whole medical history to some stranger chef or maitre d? I wouldn't want to. It's easier just to say you have an allergy. Most folks with these problems are very aware of the impact on their families and their lifestyles-it's a real struggle. The last thing they need is judgmental foodies scoffing at their struggles and making them unwelcome. Their money is as good as another person's.

Why shouldn't they be able to enjoy a nice meal at a good restaurant with non-ailing friends and family? Contrary to Tchef's car buying analogy, going out for a meal with friends or family is an event-the whole of which should be enjoyed, not just the food. It's not just a purchase of some functional appliance, but a whole experience including the surroundings, service food and atmosphere. Besides, a meal is a temporal pleasure, not a long term purchase. Few restaurants exist, if any, that cater to people with food sensitivities. The issues are just too broad and varied for such a business to stay afloat except maybe in some very large cities. Granting a few small requests and offering guidance to guests on what to choose seems like an accommodation that any creative chef could make if he chose to put a little thought into it.

Relegating them to being second class citizens unworthy of any consideration and treating them to public humiliation smacks of a kind of bigotry not dissimilar to barring people of color from lunch counters.

[katbalou]

as a retired pro.chef with documented allergies to seafood, shellfish, sulfates(there goes the wine and mushrooms), freshwater fish and celiac disease on top of it all, let me assure you that anaphylaxis is no fun. and the treatment is even more so, but breathing is always better than not. so pardon me if i get upset with people thinking i don't really have an allergy and just don't care for a food.
when i go out to eat i go at an earlier hour and discuss my allergies with the staff thouroughly, but not obnoxiously. i guess some of my training enables me to order more effectively in these matters as i have a pretty good idea of what may already be in a dish and what might be substituted.
i also go to pretty much the same restaurants all the time and am leary to go to new ones because of some of the attitudes. i can understand the frustration of the special order thing, as i spent many years on the line dealing with it. i would usually fulfill most requests unless i positively couldn't - say in the middle of 400 covers and straight out, but i would try to come up with some compromise. after all it was my paycheck in the end.
for me not having to cook is now a very special thing and if i can find a restaurant that will graciously accomodate me then you know i will be back and i will tell all of my friends about how well i was treated - and the converse holds true, also.
all that i ask is that my requests are treated with respect.
kathee

[shroomgirl]

Several chains and some independent restaurants are marking their menus with v for vegan, c for gluten free......makes life easier.

Cross contamination can be a huge issue. Fryers that had breaded product in the same oil as frys.....flat tops cooking flour tortillas and corn tortillas in the same space.....croutons on a salad being picked off instead of a fresh salad made.....

Interestingly, several of the newer independents in town don't have alot of flour or roux in dishes.


Obviously, you know your food tchef, business is good now and you don't want additional grief from "special" customers. When you are overseeing a large restaurant kitchen with numerous cooks it can be scary to consider liability if someone gets sick (or worse). Those with special needs normally eat in groups and go to the restaurants that can accomodate the one with food issues. Works for me as a caterer. As a carnivore and one who butchers local animals, it was interesting to be thought of as someone who would accomidate vegans, or celiacs. Whatever works.

[RSteve]

Originally Posted by tchef

...my message back to our chance table is a simple one “Please leave” and on that note they did the honourable thing and promptly left the building, and no they didn’t cause much of a fuss although I was expecting some kind of an apology from them.

Rest assured, in most major American cities, the restaurant where you are employed would be closed within days, pending a full investigation. Your uttering "Please leave" could have precipitated your employer and co-workers enduring a severe loss. It appears that your attitude is what people here are questioning, not your concern over your restaurant's inability to accomodate food allergic clients. If you had a concern that your kitchen has multiple food cross allergic contaminents that might be injurious to these guests, you have a moral obligation to politely inform them that eating in your restaurant is a risky endeavor, given their food allergies. Literally ordering them to "Please leave" could easily fall under the parameters of the Americans With Disabilities Act. Personally, I think you were rude and it sounds like you were more motivated by not wanting to have to deviate from your normal prep rather than concern over your potential clients' food allergies.

When I owned restaurants, had an employee spoken to a guest in that manner, he'd have been looking elsewhere for employment forthwith.

On the other hand, I have no problem with a chef, line cook, wait staff politely informing potential diners with food allergies that we don't feel that our kitchen is set up to accomodate their special needs. Once informed, the decision whether to order is the guest's.

[Marf]

What are you talking about? the Genius..........give hime some RESPECT

[kuan]

Hi Marf, welcome to cheftalk. Yes, respect is a cornerstone of cheftalk. We should all have some for one another.

Once again, we at cheftalk look forward to your contribution.

[Jim]

Interesting thread. It looks like we have taken it as far as we can. Let's lock it up and discuss some other issues.