Working off the clock

[jwv76]

I just feel like ranting.
I work 12 hour days every time I work (noon to midnight, sometimes later), but I only get paid for ten. I have time punch receipts from the POS to prove it. Often times I'll only work four days a week, so I'll get paid for 40 hours of regular time (even though I work 48, at least), but in the state I live in, supposedly, if you work more than eight hours in one day you are owed time and a half for anything over eight hours (regardless of the total number of hours for the week). So not only am I not getting paid for the two hours I worked for free, I'm also not getting the time and a half for the two extra hours over eight that I do get paid for. The practice of working cooks off the clock has become so commonplace in the industry that it is the norm, at least where I live (San Francisco). Every fine dining restaurant in SF works their cooks off the clock. I've been doing it for a long time now, but I never forget that it's totally illegal. It's the industry's dirty little secret, something I'm sure they never tell doe-eyed culinary students. I'm sure most diners would be shocked to learn that the most basic of twentieth century labor reforms have had nil effect on their favorite eatery.

[kuan]

1) Document everything

1a) Call the bar association and ask to be referred to a lawyer who specializes in labor law. Should cost you about $25 for an initial consultation.

2) Have your fellow workers document everything
3) Form an informal group with fellow workers from other restaurants/hotels and document everything

By law, you're not only entitled to overtime, you're also entitled to a half hour lunch and two fifteen minute breaks for every eight hours worked. By law, there should be an up to date poster hanging on the wall next to the time clock explaining your rights as an employee.

Kuan

[panini]

Let me know where I missed it, but I never read where you went to talk with your boss and he or she said take it or leave it. Many times owners and managers are not familiar with payroll and accounts payable practices, especially if the are done off property.
Gather all your info, time sheets,POS reports, and approach your boss. Tell them you have calculated all the monies that the company has overlooked and ask them for compensation. I only say this way for it seems its always better to approach management with a resolution than a complaint.
Now keep in mind that , if this is a dirty house and the management knows, absolutely what is going on ,then be prepared with a back up job.
PS. This is only a suggestion. Also learn the local rules. Things vary from state to state.

[kuan]

Hrm, I assumed that he did talk to his employer. Everytime I handed out paychecks I was asked to explain why the hours didn't seem right. Panini's right, talk to your employer first.

Kuan

[W.DeBord]

What happened to me once years ago.... I was working at a country club as a salaried pastry chef, but worked unsupervised, unscheduled. Months after I left the job I got this big check in the mail from them... with a weird cover letter from a goverment agency, that I didn't understand so I called the gov. number on the letter for more info.

They told me the club owed me ot (which I never recieved any while there) since it was their fault I worked over time, they should have supervised my hours or paid me ot. Well I did nothing to contact anyone about this because I didn't know that as a salaried employee I was owed ot money. BUT when I inquired to a friend that had worked there too, I understand that the club thought I went to the goverment and caused this big problem for them. Needless to say it didn't sound like I should use them as a reference ever again.

I'm not sure what my point here is exactly....other then don't forget there could be a price for you to pay in the local industry if word gets out your a 'trouble maker'. BUT to h--- with that, whats right is right....but you could have people labeling you as trouble behind your back.

I can tell you though, everyone one here knows what your talking about.

[foodnfoto]

Contact your local office of the Labor Department. They are VERY sticky about this. They will investigate and get you your back pay with overtime. If you are being paid a weekly salary, you must spend a greater amount of your time doing administrative work as opposed to production work. Restaurants and hotels get themselves into trouble with this all the time. They pay a sous chef or cook what seems to be a generous salary but then work the employee overtime like crazy.
I recieved a BIG settlement from Hyatt when I was averaging 109 hours per week at 24,000 per year. You do the math. I figured I was making about 2.75/hour.
Contact the Department of Labor!

[Peachcreek]

Not only for all the above mentioned reasons is it bad to work "off the clock", but the state and federal agencies take this VERY seriously.
1. Taxes. Not just what YOU owe, but the employer contributions.
2. Workmans' Compensation is based off of a businesses' gross payroll.
3. Liability. Suppose one of the "off the clock" employees sends out a salad with a walnut shell?
4. Federal and state labor practices vary from state to state. If your employer has a gross income of less than $250,000 per year, or less than 25 employees, they may be exempt from some federal labor laws.
5. I agree with Panini. If you confront your boss or have the business audited, be prepared to look for another job. If they fire you for your actions, you will probably be eligible for unemployment benefits.
6. Level the playing field. Low life businessmen make it hard for the rest of us who ARE doing it legally to be competitive! Do it!

[Moxiefan]

My experience has been in a mom-and-pop dishwasher/prep capacity, where its a certainty that you WILL be exploited. I never pursued it, because it was always just a summer job and didn't seem that important. Perhaps someone can back me up on the following, which I earnestly beleive to be correct (which is not to say it is).

This is the course I would reccommend. Doccument first. Doccument. Doccument. Doccument. Then go see a lawyer/labor dept. Then talk to your manager. I disagree about having a backup job, too. One of the other posters visible in your kitchen should concern legal protection for whistle blowers -- I'm pretty sure that's a Federal civil liberties mandate. They cannot fire you for bringing illegal practices to the attention of the authorities. Now, its pretty unlikely, depending on the structure of your organization, that you would want to continue to work in a place against which you catalysed legal action. Some people take that personal. If you're willing to stick it out, though, (and sticky it will be) you should have that protection. Furthermore, it will likely be all about what they know you know... which is why you need to contact either a lawyer or the labor department early on, before going to talk to management.

I hate to sound legalistic, but this is serrious stuff. It happens way to often, and people don't do anything about it. I mean it's one thing to help managment out -- cover an extra shift, clock out for an hour if cleanup is going slow -- if they treat you well in the first place and it is an exceptional circumstance. But EVERY WEEK?

that's my thinking,
P

[panini]

Au contraire Pierre, I personally know of one mom and pop place that does not exploit employees.
I dissagree: I would talk to the manager first
Then go to the labor dept. why pay a lawyer
the labor dept is free.
I understand your thinking about the attorney, but like I said in previous post, sometimes owners are not aware of illegal practices going on. This may sound like a cop out but I just survived an instance where someone handling my AP was playing games with my vendors. It took me several months to find out. I have had such a good repore with my vendors that it took a long time for them to approach me. I was crushed! I worked my a-- off for years to establish contact and credit with these people only to find out that they were being jacked around. This could of been a payroll problem just as easy.

[chefboy2160]

We as culinary employees , owners , and managers must know labor laws before we act . Never is it legal to work without being paid for it . Hourly employees are protected by federal laws , salaried people can get the shaft in a legal way sometimes
( the thread about the 100 plus weekly hours with Marriot brings back some bad memories ) . This industries history was based on taking advantage of its employees . It is up to us here and now to make a difference and to make a change . There has been so much good advice here on this thread just use what will work for you and run with it . May the force be with you .....
P.S. Keep us Posted please .......

[jwv76]

well, thanks to everyone who responded. As for having a "back-up job", well, where? This is a tough town to be a cook in, the pay is low, rent is high, the hours are long, and I mean it, everyone works off the clock (how else do you have your station set up on time?). My last job was the same, except you were actually told not to clock in before a certain time, so there was never a paper trail. I've staged at nearly a dozen other restaurants in town while looking for work (won't name names but basically all of the truly major name restaurants in town) and I assure you, none of the hourly-wage cooks I've trailed get paid for the hours they put in. I don't work at no "mom 'n pop" operation, I'm a line chef at an upscale place operated by one of the most recognizable restaurant management companies in the country (our company owns some major, major 4 star places in NYC), doing what it takes to get my resume where it needs to be. I really don't give a rat about getting back money owed to me for overtime I never recieved. What I was hoping to get from this forum was possibly a debate - is it about paying your dues or is it about exploitation? Does anybody really make it in this field who doesn't also suffer from work addiction? My executive chef works MINIMUM 100 hours a week, lunch and dinner six days a week (makes me feel like a puss - "Um, chef, my check is a little short, I worked 50 hours last week, but I only got paid for 40." Yeah, right.)

[panini]

jwv76,
Sorry you did not get the debate that you wanted. I think if you stated that you wanted discussion on "paying your dues" VS "slave labor" you would have been happier with the post.
On this forum most jump right up to help a fellow culinarian. I misunderstood also, I thought you were seeking help getting some back wages.
We have all debated this topic. One of the problems we have is there is not a parallel to other modern professions.
This profession is still very antiquated and primitive in it belief of training. One problem being that we are not regulated by a certification(except health issues) process. I'm not saying that I'm pro anything here. We all do some sort of accounting in the course of daily living,but we need CPA statis to gain respect, same goes for attourney,MD,EMT,etc.
We have all been there. I for one could not find the answers you are looking for. I paid my dues, moved up in the ranks, work for the big and popular guys, gained the Exec. title my last eight positions, made the big bucks, and still could not find happiness.
Years ago I moved to the "MOM & POP" place you seem to look down on, but I must tell you, those big boys with all the glitter and all the notariety deem you as a number. There is always some bean counter in a cubicle somewhere that has no understanding of the business making descissions that will effect you life.
PS I have found the passion even greater, for the profession, amongst my fellow ma and pa's. I don't know about NYC but here some of the most exciting houses to eat at or work at are sole owners. I do have a little understanding though, I opened that monster in Time Square in '86.

[palmier]

It sounds like you need to assess the situation very carefully. Be completely aware of the consequences before acting on them. Yes its unfair, but it could be worse. Like some of the others here, I too was ripped off. I decided it was better to walk away, instead of fighting it. I live in Chicago and a wise chef once told me 'Its a big city, but a small culinary community'. chefs call each other all the time.

[snakelady1]

In all of the kitchens I have run never was an employee allowed to work off the clock simply for insurance reasons and state law. Granted in Wisconsin opportunities are much diffferent than in the large coastal communities

[Peachcreek]

I have worked independently for the last 12 years because I realized back then that working for a large organization was as much about politics and people as it is about food. I didn't like being a part of THEIR 'big picture". I am not a politically adept person. I have NEVER agreed with the way most restaurants are run, and figured out it was up to ME to do something instead of waiting around to be DISCOVERED AND APPRECIATED! So I started owning restaurants and started getting PAID for my hard work. And the cool thing is now I can do what I want. Serve what I want. Work when I want. Hey! I'm getting paid to screw around on the Internet! I work these days @ 20-30 hours per week. I have a good staff. I take a lot of vacations.
If you guys are willing to put up having to work those monsterous hours without compensation, good luck. I guess this "dues paying" will go on as long as people think it is a way to get ahead in the restaurant business!