the battle of the sexes!!!

[panini]

I'm so glad you're here!!!! very well put but I think you're speaking of this industry through the big city picture. Maybe not.
Knowing you a little, you could hang with the best!!!!!! but are you the average female???
You mentioned the fratboy bolillos, I think this same person of the opposite sex will have a very difficult time at least for a few more years, especially here in the south. I would be hard pressed to find 1 in ten chefs here female. But I also have to tell you that the few I know well I really respect. Mainly for their dedication to something they love. Personally I try to hire the best persons available for the jobs we offer and somehow have surrounded myself with women at work. That must tell ya something! but I'm also in therapy

[culinarian247]

Originally posted by panini
but are you the average female???

comments like that can get ya in trouble, man

[Suzanne]

No, no, it's okay. For one thing, Panini and I (and several other CTers, AND my husband, Paul, who only eats) spent quite a long evening together eating and drinking and talking, so we do in fact know each other more than just from online conversations. And I think the world of Panini -- which I did before we met in person, and still do even afterwards .

Darn it, I should be the average female! I'm proud of being one tough broad, a child of the 60s (I was accidently pepper-gassed in Madison, WI in 1968). And, frankly, I wish more women were as tough, too. There seems to have been an awful lot of backsliding, with "girls" thinking that they have to be "girls" and not standing up for themselves. Pull up you socks, ladies, and get to work!!!!!!! After all, it takes so much pressure off those poor helpless guys when we women can function as full human beings. We know we've always done it; THEY know we've always done it. Enough of this subterfuge already!!!!

It really pains me to keep reading this garbage about "Are men better at XXXXXX than women?" The only things men are better at are 100% physiological; and then, we are infinitely better at other physiological pursuits. When was the last time a man nursed a baby? But differences like that have nothing to do with work, and how well anyone perform do his/her job. I just don't understand how anyone can see things differently. Which is not to say that I haven't butted up against discrimination; I just work around it to the best of my ability.

Well, excuse me, I have to go strain the stock I just made from the shells of the live shrimp I drowned in Chinese wine for dinner tonight. (Oh, they were so delicious when I sitr-fried them with ginger and garlic...!)

edit: Hey, I'm in therapy too! But mainly so that I stop yelling at Paul (he's there with me!)

[katbalou]

dear suzanne,
never mind when was the last time a man nursed a baby - but delivered one! think they'd make it through natural child birth? sorry guys, i just couldn't resist.
as for being female in the kitchen i guess it comes down to respecting other people as much as you would like them to respect you. i have held many different positions and managed many people of different backgrounds. my production levels were higher than others as i took the time out to get to know the employees - not on a friend level - but as teammates, striving towards the same goals.
of course it was difficult in the beginning, having to prove myself time after time, but that's a whole other story. i think i went into the back of the house because it was something that wasn't done - all the restaurants in the area tended to hire male workers. so i just had to go out and bust open a few doors.
kat

[panini]

culinarian247,
my question about Suzanne being average was a compliment, as she says about being tough, I don't think she would have any problems and truthfully I don't think I could carry her knives in the kitchen. I guess I'm just trying to say that although things are changing in the kitchens, here there seems to be the older type of gender specific kitchens. My wholesale business takes me to a lot of the BOH's. If it's changing it's sure not obvious. I truly think that the BOH road is still going to be tougher for females. I myself, am 100% on the other side of the fence. ****, I sometimes still get razzed from some of the old timers about the girls decorating job I do. The positive side to all this is that it is a physically tough business and most of the old school thinking guys will die off. Can you believe I just wrote that!!!

[culinarian247]

no harm intented. i kinda figured you two knew each other outside of CT. i only know a couple of people.

[Suzanne]

To continue this lovefest, I am not fit to touch Panini's pastry bag ... um, Sweetex ... um, oh, h*ll, he's a great guy, and one of the most level-headed people I've ever met. Just like CapeChef, and momoreg, and marmalady, and and and ...

Jeff (Culinarian, that is): I feel like I "know" a lot of the people here, whether I've met them in person or not. ChefTalk has one of the highest content-to-bull ratios I've seen on food websites. Members here feel comfortable revealing what really matters to them -- food-related or personal -- and are right to expect to receive at least a fair hearing, and often receive strong support and encouragement. To repeat what I've said many times before, ChefTalk is the best.

That's one reason why I mouth off as much as I do about the supposed "battle of the sexes" in the kitchen. I hate artificial battles (except for Iron Chef ). I hate taking sides. I think we should all have the opportunity to work to the best of our abilities. I can heft a 50# sack of flour if I have to. I know enough to NOT heft a full 12-gallon stockpot without help. I will help anyone who asks for help, whether it's for brawn or for brains, if I can. And I wish that everyone else thought and acted the same way.

Sorry to sound so preachy. And my point -- that here we accept each other for what we are, and what we believe each other to be capable of -- is getting lost. It's late. Anyway, you get the idea, I hope.

[Nicko]

Lots of great comments, Suzanne, I think you should have your own radio show. I personally have had the pleasure of working with some fantastic female chefs and as it was said earlier it really doesn't make any difference whether you are male or female, just your passion level about the food you are preparing. Whether you are a man or a woman it doesn't matter, the kitchen is a tough gig, long hours, hot stoves, steam burns, cut, etc. I have seen just as many wimpy guys who freak out the minute they have four order tickets in front of them as women.

The one thing that does bother me about women in the kitchen is simply when fellow cooks or the chef (males) start harrassing them simply because they are women. Once I had climbed the ladder a bit I never once hesitated to tell a cook to shut his mouth or he could find a new job if he made disgusting or lewd comments to a fellow female cook.

And lastly, as for lifting heavy stock pots and the sort anyone who wants to lift them by themselves they can go ahead. As for me I was an ice carver for over six years and never learned early on to never lift anything by yourself unless you wanted to end up with a bad back at the age of 35.

[panini]

Nicko,
I think a radio show is a great idea!!!!!!! I would give Suzanne the drive time 3pm to 7pm. CC or your self could do a couple of hours. An internet thing with a web cam?? I would really like to be the(not sure of the title) guy who does the sound effects. Like pans clanging, Julia cutting here finger, burr mixer, garbage disposal, timer going off, etc. Your are a genius!! I hope somebody with experience in this area will post and give us some idea of cost.

[Suzanne]

Oh, please!

But then I'd have to let other peole talk sometimes! boo!

On the other hand, I could be the kind of talk-show host who cuts callers off with, "You're an idiot! Next caller, please."
Okay, where do I start, and how do I get national syndication.

Oh, wait, that means people would call on cell phones from their cars? Can't have that!!!

[liebkuchen]

battles of the sexes can only exist when an arena is created.
12 years in kitchens has taught me tolerance and acceptance and i believe i am equally flawed/capable of prejudice as my male counterparts.

any job in this world may have been male dominated at one time but women do have the networks to supporteach other and pay equity.

the only barrier gender creates that i have personally witnessed is they way we communicate and compete. I love learning from and "One-upping?" my bros in the kitchen but sometimes men are raised to be threatened by a woman wanting to be at eye level just like women sometimes take some cues from men in the wrong way.

vive la difference!

[merwin]

here's my 2 cents
One of my first jobs was a jr. line cook next to my mother. Of the dozen or so kitchen staff I was the only male. {I was teased a lot.}The majority of cooks in my neck of the woods are female! When it comes to Chefs the majority are male! Why? I don't know. A friend of the family has been a cook for 20+ years and both her daughters are cooks, why not become a chef I asked them? I like to cook was the answer. Most chefs spend more time as a manager then cooking. Maybe most women enjoy cooking more then telling someone how to cook. I have been out of the kitchen (restaurant biz.} for over ten years, and thinking of returning to school to become a chef. But the most important lesson I have learned is that good food comes from the heart and I learned that from mom. Title or no title a good cook/chef are worth their weight in gold in a busy kitchen...Amen

[babawaba]

Hi Everyone
While the Ratio of Male Chefs vs Female Chefs is wide
the Time is changing
More women have entered the Indusrty within the Past
few Years
I'm 24 and currently aN executive Sous Chef
[At least that's what is states on my Nametag]
I get paid the same as my Male Counterpart
and work the same amount as hours

Many women seem to head towards The Pastry End of
the Industry
there are ten times as many Female Pastry Chefs as there
was five years ago
KIM

[chefsoundar]

- As far as Asian countries are concerned , I would say only that females are more tilted towards family building , so that they could not cope with the timings and the commitmeent towards the career.