What's the deal with New York trained chefs?

[tomculb]

First off, I'm a pastry chef, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I've encountered two New York trained chefs over the last few years and I am amazed how similar they are.

The scenario: I work in restaurants south of San Francisco. Good places, but not sexy SF restaurants. As a result, our staff is all Latino, hard working, but not well trained. This is not their passion and career, this is a way to send some money home.

New York chef takes over. Here are the apparent management philosophies of these guys. (Learned in NYC?)

1. All cooks are expendable.
2. I will not train anyone.
3. I will not bother to learn any Spanish.
4. I will yell at the cooks, if they don't seem to understand it's either because they're lazy, or the classic "they understand me they just don't want to follow my orders".
5. I have a million stories from back in the day which usually involve 45-150 days straight without a day off, working 3 stations at once. (believable?)
6. I make GREAT food, but no one else seems to be able to replicate it.
7. I will never write down a recipe for the staff to follow.

This style works in NYC where you have a stream of qualified people coming through the door, but what about here? I think it's pretty stupid.

CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT: NY training makes you into a fantastic cook, but not a good manager. You are taught to NOT think. Just do. Great for NY, terrible for situations that don't fit that mold.

[Suzanne]

Please do not think that those jerks are the norm in NY. Well, maybe for some CIA-trained* jerks , but not for anyone I've ever worked with over the last 7 years. Or me, come to think of it (NY Restaurant School, A.O.S., 1996).

My guess is that they went out west because their behavior didn't -- couldn't possibly -- cut it here. Because it WOULD NOT, in just about any kitchen. NY is just the same as anywhere else: you need to find the needles of hard workers in the haystack of jerkoffs; there is definitely NOT a huge pool of well-trained people here, any more than there is anywhere else. You need to recognize the good guys, no matter what language they speak. And so a chef MUST know how to manage, same as everywhere else. Please don't blame those clowns on anyplace or anything other than their own sorry selves.

Please don't hate us here. Those idiots are NOT New York's fault; only their own.

Edit: * Is that what you mean? S***heads from CIA? They are NOT from NY; they are from their own egos, exclusively. There are a lot of other places in New York, city and state, where one can get good training and NOT end up a flaming whatever.

[cape chef]

I was hoping Suzanne would take the lead on this.

Tom,

I agree with her statements %100.

Please if you have time go down to the pastry forums and look around. A # of our esteemed pastry people are/have worked in the great city of New York.

The sediment you talked of by the chefs your dealing with really is the exception,not the norm.

W.Debord.......any thoughts?

[Jim]

NY training makes you into a fantastic cook, but not a good manager.

I agree! Well, half-way.

I think training to become a cook can be so narrow in focus, that the management side is often neglected.

So, yes, there are absolutely fantastic cooks out there, but they can't manage a one-car funeral without screwing it up (and laying blame on somebody else!) I just don't think the problem is New York-centric.

[momoreg]

I received most of my training in NYC, and have worked with lots of jerks! I also trained under some wonderful chefs, who turned out to be great teachers. Many of the jerks I worked with weren't from NY at all. They were mostly European, coincidentally, with one exception. Anyway, big cities, being so competitive, probably breeds jerkiness in certain people, New Yorkers or not.

[tomculb]

Thanks for your responses. Why are the jerky chefs coming to SF area? Do they have a chip on their shoulder? The other funny thing is the NY chefs I was discussing often say "we would never do this in New York" or "This is not how it's done in New York". My rather unpopular response is last time I checked, we're not IN New York!!

[Suzanne]

Why do they go to SF? Because it's a great area with great restaurants! Where they feel they should be appreciated.

Again, they are NOT representative. One of the problems in our industry is that there are so many "legends in their own minds." Unfortunately, that stupid attitude does seem to be encouraged among attendees of a certain training institution somewhere up from the mouth of the Hudson River (no, I do NOT mean Sing Sing ). Whether the institution itself fosters that attitude, I don't know; I didn't go there. However, the media certainly do, and by extension those who believe whatever someone tells them.

BTW: have you ever considered that they might just be SAYING they are "from NY" because they think that will impress the western rubes and fill you with awe?

Repeat after me: "I will not let these jerks get under my skin."

[Pete]

This attitude you discribe is not only coming from Chef's out of NYC. You can find chef's like that all over, though the majority tend to come from larger cities, especially those with hot food scenes, such as New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Vegas, LA, Seattle, and yes, even San Francisco. Spend enough time in those scenes, and many chefs let it go to their heads. In Chicago, it was some of the ex-California chefs that used to drive me nuts, going on and on and on, about what great produce and seafood they could get out there and nothing in Chicago can compare and that the West coast seafood, far surpasses the East coast for flavor and freshness and on and on. Though I have had the misfortune to meet such chefs from most cities across the US. The up side to this is that these types chefs are in the vast minority. For every big-headed meglomaniac there are 100 level headed chefs, who treat their people right, and put out a great product.

[foodnfoto]

The only thing I can add to these esteemed comments is that there are big dumb, self centered jerks in every city on the globe.

[holydiver]

Hey Pete speaking of big heads,did anybody see date plate on the foodnet last night??

[soussweets]

i think alot of these prick chefs you speak of will act like this no mater where they are from. i think you have problems especialy w these newyorker chefs simply because they think they come from the pinacle of everything culinary. i have met my share of chefs like this and i have devised from most of them that they either can't roll like they used to,,,, or they think by teaching others their methods and knowledge they will no longer be usefull. most bad a s s chefs out there want to pass their knowledge on to their people, no matter what language they speak, but some just don't have the self confidence to let their employees become as good as they are.

[W.DeBord]

Now that I've gotten out and around to more kitchens my general opinion of the current breed of chefs is AUE. Perhaps all the bad apples desided to move to SF.
Sure I've come across some real losers over the years (and have talked about it TOOOOO much here). I've currently ran into several young ones that think their s___ doesn't stink and they can do no wrong since they attended CHIC or some other junior college. But they all get humilated eventually.........love to see them burn something (everyone in the kitchen notices).

I haven't seen anyone bragging about what town they're from though..........

[Peachcreek]

BTW: have you ever considered that they might just be SAYING they are "from NY" because they think that will impress the western rubes and fill you with awe?

Awww, shucks, Ma'am.....

Sincerely, Peachcreek.
Western Rube.

[chefboy2160]

Hey Pete , I like what you said about California chefs as I used to be one . I have resided in Reno Nevada for the last 11 years and have seen a few of the big shot chefs from Europe to N.Y. and in my opinion it realy does not matter . Your true self will show and then its showtime ! Also from what I have seen of the western farmers , the best produce seems to be shipped east . Must have something to do with supply , demand , and profit . Remember no matter how many stories these chefs can tell about there past in the big city , it is always here and now, so if you talk the talk then walk the walk ! later , Doug ....................................

[shroomgirl]

Funny i thought the midwest had the best produce.....at least in the past few years it rivals most. And I'm a Cal girl.