I believe that the industry has been in the dark ages for a long time. After all it did have its origins in either slavery or sevitude no more then a hundred forty years ago. Unfortunately little has changed with the expectations of the industry since then. Other industries have evolved and a person can work and make a good living. In this business I'm in, thats really hard to say. If yuor making money then you have no time to spend with your familly/freinds or yourself. If your working as a cook or line employee then you need two jobs to make ends meet. I'm coming from the standpoint of a familly man. I'm raising two daughters and I havn't a wife. I'm an executive chef for a demanding kitchen. I've had two days off in the month of july and I regularly work 12 to 14 hour shifts. The revenue has tripled in my restaurant. So do you walk away or do you commit yourself to making sure your operation runs smoothly. I'm looking for qualified cooks to run the line right now and dishwashers (the most important job). Right now the market is very tight with qualified help. Anyway I'm rambling because I haven't been out of my cage recently. Here's a suggestion to the person that burns her fingers on the grill when she/he cleans it -WEAR DISHWASHER GLOVES- YELLOW LATEX FLEECE LINED GLOVES- as long as the grill isn't red hot the gloves will protect your hand, wrists and arms from grease burns or grill brick burns. I learned that as an apprentice over twenty years ago and I haven't gotten burnt since.

[cape chef]

David,I'm happy you got out of your cage for a couple days...Their are many hear at cheftalk that can relate to your position.

You bring up some good points, It is true that in our industry that thier really isn't much middle ground. Not one of my line cooks works only one job, You can't support a family on $10-$15 and hour.Also,like you said,your revenues have tripled because of your dedication and hours spent in your restaurant...How to balance? That's the question.I do not work 12-14 hours everyday,but I always work at least 10 and many times more. A 55 hour work week in our industry is just fine with me. I also have two wonderful daughters,although I am married and not a single parent like yourself,so I have less to think about when it comes to who will take care of my children when I am at work all day and night.

Do you commit or walk away? I can't answer that for you,unlike so many other industrys,when the clock strikes 5:00 we can not leave to go home to our love ones.

I also want to add though...That thier are many other avenues one can pursue to try and find balance. Chefjohnpaul comes to mind.

anyway,nice to have you with us and good luck
cc

[lynne]

Wow -- haven't been on the board for a while -- a lot of reading to catch up on! While I agree that the profession as a whole needs major restructuring in the ways of wages/salaries and benefits -- there are other balances and decisions that we need to decide what is important- I had an employee making $18/hour, always broke -- kept telling me that I didn't understand how much it did to live (yes I did--I saw the checks - I know he brought home $50 less (hourly-union) biweekly than I did (salary-managemnt and many more hours on the job). But I could pay my rent because I wan't buying a new pair of $150 tennis shoes everytime I turned around.

Students -- need to have a realistic knowledge of the $$$ going into education and what the realistic wage for a job fresh out of culinary school is. They have seen the glamour reps of the industry and don't realize how few get that far. THey also need to know what other career options are out there where your finger can still be in the pie. They also need to evaluate if this is what I am spending and "x" will be loan payment -- what exactly can I accept as wages to live and do what I want. I think too many people have problems with that concept.

I felt like I "defaulted" by going and working for a Food Service Company because I was not going to be able to live, make school payments, etc, on what was the going rate when I graduated. Now that I am running my own business, I can appreciate the PNLs, Food Costing, etc I did there. For once, I am getting to see the whole picture -- and now it makes sense! And I'm glad I have that experience.

For a while I ended up on a much more managerial end -- hated it -- numbers, union, etc -- I only got to cook on days when someone called out sick - which was usually inventory or numbers day--so cooking under the gun because you know there were many other things not getting done. Got to the point that I hated cooking, even at home -- I knew then that something had to change. I would either give up my passion for dollars or keep my passion and take it to another direction. (there- the sortof one reason I fell into the B&B biz--I have always loved the notion of it and am a hostess at heart!)>

I've spent enough time out there doing what I wanted and creating my own menus specials, etc, that I was never going to be happy where I didn't have some kind of creative control.

Here - I design menus, create decadent breakfasts that end to bowl people over (cocktail parties, desserts, romantic surprises). I'm in control of the money and the staffing -- I have chosen not to give myself and well deserved and needed raise so I can have housekeeeping help and the laundry is sent out -- nullbut I now actually have a few minutes to call my own. I find myself grabbing cookbooks off the shelf, spending way to much time in the gourmet markets, but, I love food again - it relaxes me (my own form of therapy (pounding cutlets is afterall a wonderful way to work off aggression!), I get instant gratification for my efforts, and once more I have my passion back! My glass is half full -- sometimes overflowing!

So you have to look for alternatives, learn to compromise -- and to set your priorities until the population at large realizes that there needs to be a middle ground between the boil in a bag chains and the artsy/stacked to the max restaurants that make the general "middle-class" population so nervous.

[chefjohnpaul]

Reading Chef Chenelle's post made me recall my old Exec in that he had real problems with his oldest boy because he was never there for him. No job should work against the family, monetary is just part of the nurturing so kids need that attention. Hang in there Chef Chanelle, I'm sure the decision you make will benefit your family for the long run.

[W.DeBord]

That's it ChefJohnPaul our hard work and devotion to our industry does come at a price. Our sous chefs son was murdered last year, he fell into the gang life. My head chefs two oldest daughters have pulled run away stints for weeks, where they called the police in looking for them.

Who here doesn't know an acholic, a drug dependent co-worker or a *** addict running around work?

Yes bad things happen in good peoples lives. But isn't there a more pronounced pattern of problems in families where the parents work excessive hours regardless of education or background?

As I understand the United States has the longest work week of any of the industrialize nations in the world. I don't view that as something to be proud of. I think that means were scraficing other things in life for our jobs. Compromise is a good word.

Thank you all for the nice posts in regard to my message. I would like to clear something up though. I'm not totally alone here in San Diego. My immediate family lives here and they help out a lot with my children. I also have a wonderful girlfriend who worked in the business for years before she moved to another business (she orders the repos of cars:eek . I also am a member of the chefs assoc. and I have many freinds that have grown with me since we were prep cooks eons ago in the biz. So I do have a good support system. My children do well in school and have hobbies which is very important.Idle teenagers usually get in trouble. I do tell them and urge both not to enter into this business. I don't want them to follow what I did in life. I Just feel that I must show them a responsible direction. I've fed five presidents almost half of hollywood , been on t.v.s great chefs of san diego,had great articles in the newspaper, competed against the southwestern american culinary olympic team and have placed first twice and tied for first once out of the four times I competed against them. How has this awarded me? I'm an executive chef not even making 50k a year. SO there is disappointment at how hard this business is.I have allways followed my heart and interests that I have a passion for. I don't regret anything I just wish this business was a little more civilized in its expectations, compensation and work environment.

[chefjohnpaul]

I appreciate what you're saying. I was on TV on a monthly basis, wrote the menus and developed the recipes plus worked the line in the fine dining restaurant in the premier hotel in Sacramento, ect...
When I left the company I was making less than 30K per year. I'm glad I did all that because it was a passion thing and still is, and it helped me grow, but now I have more time for family and other vital obligations. It is clearer now as I look back at it. A very close friend told me once,'sometimes you have to slow down to speed up.' Everything comes with a price the question is, is that price one we can afford? Everybody's circumstance is different so each one must reflect differently.

Bon Appetit!

I have been in your shoes. This is my first post in about 8 months, I used to read and post just about everyday. I got VERY burned out this past year and had to leave EVERYTHING associated with the "Chef business" and I am now just started to get involved again. I did not leave the business but had to take a step down from the"high class" cooking I was doing. I am now a manager for Ruby Tuesday and have never had the little amount of stress in my life as I do now. I miss cooking and running a kitchen VERY VERY much but I also don't miss the low pay, for the amount of work, and the constant problems that always seem to be so major to the F&B director but in reality very small. Unfortunalty for the culinary field and most of the publics view of the culinaryfield, people like Emeril and Wolfgang and Julia have hurt us culinarians. The public has a view that we work 9 to 5 have hundred of thousands of dollars and cook in a nice climate controlled studio. Sure the kitchens are hot, pay is low, and the hours don't let you have a life, but didn't WE pick what we wanted to do? I LOVE being a chef, I LOVE cooking and it kills me everyday that I have to babysit a bunch of crying little waiters rather than making daily specials and watching stocks so they don't burn. Becoming a chef is a choice that we made and if you don't want to be one, do what I did, take a break and about six months into the new job you will realise that being a chef is for you or it's not. OR don't let it get to that point, talk to you boss or his/her boss let them know what you are thinking and feeling, you would be surprised on the answers, a lot more people care about you than you think.

[panini]

I feel the most important aspect of a salaried employee is to get full control of your situation. If you are hired to run a department, than by gosh, the employer should let you do your job. On the other hand if you don't take control and let your department run from up above you will never be happy.
The approach to your department should be one of ownership. If you treat your department like a business you will never have any production or money problems. This does require some work on your part though.
You need to know the financials of your dept. Without this information you will never be able to stand up for yourself to explain the reason you need more1232344. You need the tools. When you approach ownership
and explain that you may require more help for the comming months, you must produce the grosses for each dept. their cogs, labor cost,etc, and if your on the low side you'll win. You will be shocked that some departments run a 28-38% labor cost and yours is 15. Someone is getting your 15% because they have done their homework. I'm to new to ramble, I could go on forever.
The reason we work is to get financial compensation to enjoy our home lives.Work to live, not live to work. This also does not mean you can't be very passionate about your work.Money is only money, if you are making 20,000. this year, set your goals to be at 60,in two years. know everything about your job, make sure everyone knows your goals,have fun and the zeros come very easy.
Jeff

What are "culinarians?" If folks like Emeril, Wolfgang, and Julia aren't, What the **** is? Do you place yourself above tose very sucessful chefs because you don't enjoy the recognition and pay that they do. Do you believe that their success came overnight? All three of the people that you listed worked long and hard in their profession to achieve their position. Don't belittle them because you couldn't hack it.

[cape chef]

Calm down my friends..

May I say with all do respect that Puck,Emril and Julia should not be in the same catagory.Also,20 grand to 60 grand in two years? I don't think so. All three of the chefs or entertaners deserve to be respected for each of thier individual contributions to the culinary world. Mrs Childs opened the door for our female peers to enter and excell in culinary arts. Mr Puck was busy doing cutting edge cuisine in the states almost 20 years ago and Emeral has caught the attention of the American public. We don't have to agree with everything these chefs do...but they have helped in thier own way to bring attention to our field. It's up to us to decide what to do with the attention. I have learned over the years that to deflate someones ability to inflat ones own is only a cheap shot. I have my opinions of chefs and guess what,they have there opinions of me...but we are a union of people...together we can increase peoples ideas and opinions of chefs.Together we stand,devided we fall.

cc

[momoreg]

I agree with that, CC! I guess it's easier to say that these celebrities aren't real chefs, than to celebrate what they contribute to our trade.

[Greg]

I don't think that Tiss is belittling Julia, et al; I believe he is merely saying that they may have created an illusion in the eyes of the non-hospitality industry public of what the job of the average, everyday chef is like. Cheftalk is such a nice place because we manage to respect one another's opinions, even when we disagree. So, as I've said before, think before you type, re-read before you post and we'll all stay one big happy.

P.S. Welcome back Tiss!

[Kimmie]

I'm with CC on this issue. It had to be said.

And let's remain a happy family, Greg!

[chefjohnpaul]

I agree,I think what Tiss was saying is that the disservice is not the caliber of these chefs, it's the image that the public has portrayed and which they are buying into. Pepin is my favorite, but, in the professional setting he probably isn't the calm, smiling, cater to Julia kind of chef. He probably ran his brigades with a sense of urgency and authority. I think the public is getting the wrong idea- 90% glamour, %10 hard work where as it's the other way around.

The general public thinks we make way more than most of us do. When I plopped my portfolio down in front of the director of an adult ed skill center for a teaching position, she imagined I was making twice what I was making. Her jaw dropped when she found out. The celebrity chef just adds to this mis-conception. They are very talented but now everybody thinks ALL chefs are celebrities making celebrity money.

Am I right Tiss?