Cooks vs Foh

[KC]

ChefDanielle, FYI, I AM a surgeon (only an "amateur chef"), and I can tell you that in my hospital the O.R. nurses DO make more per hour than the surgeons! The point of my post is that level of education, training, and responsibility do not determine pay scales. This is the reason that FOH may make more than the chef & kitchen staff.

[Live_to_cook]

KC: The nurses make more than the surgeons? How much? Is it because the surgeons are trainees?

[shroomgirl]

KC hard to believe, when my ex was in the Army the docs made much more than he did as an atty. He always said they had AMA instead of ABA....so what's going on with the AMA? One of my clients changed from surgeon to anesthiologist (ob) amazing the amount of time this guy has off....he works 24 hours and is off 3 days. Every three weeks he has a week off then he has vacation on top of that. I know he's doing OK cause I cook for him weekly and have for 4 years.

[KC]

I'm not sure that this is an appropriate forum for a lesson in medical economics but...It is true, the O.R. nurses make more per hour than I do, and I'm not just a trainee. The difference in our total income is due only to the fact that they work 40 hours per week, and I work 100 hours per week on the average. (Cooking is only my hobby in my spare time. Right now, I'm not working due to a hand injury, so I have time to enjoy things like ChefTalk.)

I can't comment on the Army or attorney's pay rates. I am not a member of the AMA, but I don't believe this organization has any influence on pay for physicians. You're right, anesthesiologists generally have less demanding schedules than many other medical specialists, and they also have one of the highest compensation rates, again proving that pay scales can be very irrational.

If anyone truly wants to delve into this further, feel free to Email me; as I said, I don't think this is really the right forum.

OK KC Iam at the hospital right now and surrounded by guess what?????
OR Nurses and they are wondering if you are in Italy or something.
Not to be argumentative and I apologize wholeheartedly if you think that Iam.
If I worked 100 hours per week I would make nothing either.
Are you on call?
Are you on salary?
Maybe you need to renegotiate your contract one of the Neonatal Nurse practitioners is telling me.
And she too makes less than you ...But yes I understand what you are trying to say..
Happy holidays.
Danielle
"the amateur chef as well starting chefschool in 17 days."


[This message has been edited by chefteldanielle (edited 12-23-2000).]

The amount of skill needed to work in the boh vs. the foh, and time invested in training and education are not refelected in the pay scale. I do not know one wait that has over 300 books on service, I have at least that on food. Waits get paid in cash and usually do well. I collect a salary. If the restaurant is slow, I still get paid, if I need an extra night off I still get paid. Though more hours are required of me, and in general make less the benefits are there for me in the long run. One day I will be the executive or owner, and 99% of foh will still be the wait. The long term commitment, and love of the business is what makes great chefs, not the money.

[Greg]

KC, the argument you are making is one that some chefs also make; if they broke down their salary into an hourly wage, they make less than their hourly wage cooks. I have a hard time listening to this argument when I'm hearing it from a chef making $20k more per year than me (and I wouldn't mind that paycheck one bit, even knowing the hours to be worked beforehand, as I'm sure they did). My point being, you make more than these nurses per year; the hourly comparison is abstract unless you are also paid hourly or the expectations of hours to be worked in your occupations match.

I agree Greg
Danielle

[shroomgirl]

There is probably some logic unknown to us about surgeon's income....KC suggested e-mailing him that may be the best way to answer your questions...I find it curious too, but then I was married to an Atty who for years made less hourly than his secretary.....

Sorry.
I anwered again because there is no E-mail available for KC.
Danielle

[Katherine]

Something a lot of writers to this thread seem to be missing is that it isn't all waitpersons who rake in big buck on a evening meal. Server income is based on tips, and servers work just as hard to please the customers at cheap places and on bad shifts for a lot less money. You don't find servers at Denny's making lots more than the kitchen staff. Servers that work in a high-class place that requires more skills should earn more, but not obscenely so, and the kitchen staff should, too.

[UniChef]

If you stick at it and work your way up as a chef you can earn a lot more than the waitstaff- and on salary- so you know what you are going to be taking home every week. One thing you have to remember about the waitstaff is they are quick to tell you how much they make on a good night, but you don't often hear about the ones where they only took home $30.

-Mike

[Wambly]

Waits that I have known are paid less than a cook ...

They make tips according to how well they do their job and are dependant on the generosity of the guest.

Tips are NOT pay. By that I mean the money is not taken out of the gross and paid out as wages, it comes directly from the client.
Wait staff (in the US) are only guaranteed minimum wage.
They have to put up with tip sharing, side work at 2.10 an hour, screaming children and folks you just can't please. (I know, those last bits sound just like what cooks/expediters put up with from the waits too

If you want to get into the true wage discrepancy 'tween front and back of the house look at bartenders and sommelier...

And all that came out of someone who worked BoH before going the catering route

[youla]

I have worked FOH in my early days and LIVED!! off my tips...my pay now as a demi is the award but my problem is that once you are promoted to chef de partie.[ ps i have turned down this promotion 3 times!! sounds silly but maybe not ]...you are paid by contract salary....works out about 5o dollars a week more...as a demi i make more on overtime and my tax return works out better. by the way you wouldnt believe what some of the untrained casuals earn,,,14 hours a day 5 to 7 days a week.!!

[This message has been edited by youla (edited 01-03-2001).]

[chefjohnpaul]

When I was with a large hotel chain I suggested that a small mark up be placed on each menu item. Something to the order of 25 cents a plate, then kick that back to the kitchen at the end of the pay period. The more covers done, the more incentive to work harder. Hey, that's what waitstaff works on, right? I thought it was a good idea and so did others.

But, it takes a long time to turn a big ship. I'm gone and the cooks are still under paid with no incentive besides passion and perhaps advancement (reletive term) to work harder. Hardley seems fair, in fact when a person is paid less and takes it because they love what they do in some cases it can border exploitation.