[DaveB]

There is a tyranny of the simple as well as a tyranny of the complex. The insistance that EVERYTHING be named in English is as silly as an insistance that everything be named in French.

Years ago, I happened to stay at a hotel in Tel Aviv, Israel. Every night the left side of the menu featured extravagent French descriptions of the various courses. The Hebrew side invariably described dinner as chicken soup, schnitzel and noodles. Both sides of the issue on the same menu!

I was most upset, hoever, at Page's willingness to give up precision. Fraise des Bois aren't just strawberries. And apart from the caviar/breakfast distinction, the last time I made blini, they were quite different from the recipe I would use for buckwheat cakes at breakfast.

[Kimmie]

As quoted by CC earlier: Balance is the word I guess I'm trying to say

[Nicko]

When I was over in France this was a very big deal for the French. So much so that they actually passed a law the outlawed the use of English words in French advertisments, signs, etc. Many felt that they were losing the French language with the introduction of such words as "Le Joggin" for jogging.

[kuan]

Originally posted by Nicko:
<STRONG>
Goose Liver fried in a hot pan and served with cooked down port wine and fig</STRONG>

Heh Nicko, in some parts of the country, you might be able to serve more Foie Gras if you describe it as Fried Goose Liver. Perhaps on AYCE Gizzards and Lamb Fries night!

Kuan

[Isa]

I’ve thought about this for a while before answering. It is a subject close to my hearth, being French in a sea of English. And let me states for I am not for the independence of Québec, I just want to protect my language. Furthermore I have a British as well as a French side and I know that my English is far from perfect, I have little knowledge of the English grammar because it was never to me in school.

My first though when I read Shroomgirl’s post about the reaction of the chef was, well I’m too polite to say. But I stepped back and realised that he’s reacting just as I would, he wants to protect his language. That in itself is very noble and I can understand his feelings on the subject.

The only problem I have with the use of French is that most don’t even bother to check the spelling and or the grammar. If one can not rely on the teachers and books to learn the proper French terms for your field of work where will one learn? I am always surprised by the number of errors there are in cookbooks even when the authors are French!

Is fraises des bois the same as strawberries? No wild strawberries would be closer to the French fraises de bois. Foie gras does indeed sounds better then fat liver pâté. In the culinary field, many terms are French because they were the ones who set up the base of cooking. As our horizons widened, we also learn words from many other languages, think, wok, dim sum, paella, enchiladas, pasta, etc. Those words are more then useful, they enriched us all and are used to describe new realities. How often would you order raw fish on rice? Sushi does sound better. We each, in our respective country, have to find the middle ground. I know some find a certain exoticism in using foreign words and will do so, sometimes too freely. Where is the good measure? We each have to find our own middle ground.

[Pete]

Other terms that Mr. Page should not have on his menu,or in his kitchen, if he truly feels this way:

Entree
Salsa-hispanic word
al dente
filet or filet mignon
tortilla-it's a ground hominy pancake
pate
The list could go on and on. No food, no culture's food lives in isolation. We all borrow from each other. To not call something by its widely recognized name just because it is a foreign name is rediculous. I do agree that it does drive me nuts to go into a restaurant serving "American" cuisine, yet half the menu is in French or Japanese or Thai just for the sake of being flowerery, but sometimes those names are the best way to describe what is being served. Nobody wants to eat "Fattened Liver from a Force Fed Duck" or "Snails cooked in 1/2# of Butter with enough Garlic to make your Breathe Stink for a Week". How else can you can you describe Potatoes Mashed with Salt Cod other than as Brandade?

[cape chef]

My Dear Iza...

So well put!!!

cc

[elakin]

hi all

shroomgirl...this is a great post...really got everyone talking.

i also thought a tortilla was a ground hominy pancake until i went to spain and had tortilla espanola, which is what we know as a frittata...or an omelet...more or less. and to me....that is the whole point. the language of food is evolving....and it always will be. obviously the word travelled from spain to mexico, but the food that was associated with that word changed somewhere along the way.

and as chefs who write menus for the dining public to read and digest, we have a big responsibility. i understand why this chef shroomgirl was working with would act this way, because working abroad, i see the way "american food" is looked down upon by the world who thinks only of hamburgers, hot dogs, and big steaks with baked potatoes.

but to try to eliminate commonly used foreign terms that have already been previously integrated into the american vocabulary is ridiculous.

one of the beautiful things about food is that it fosters multi-cultural awareness by breeding familiarity with foreign terms and rich cultural traditions. maybe the diner you serve "bouillabaise" to tonight will be inspired to look it up on the internet tomorrow and read about the great tradition and ceremony involved with this particlar preparation of "fish stew with toasted bread slices, and a thick red-pepper garlic emulsion." maybe it will inspire them to go to nice and eat the real thing...maybe it will inspire them to learn french, or read more about provencial french cooking. who knows? maybe they'll go to france and eat the real thing only to realize how the version you made in kansas city didn't even do the term justice.

obviously, there's tons of foreign words which are now well-incorporated into american language (food-related and non)...and more will be added. i can only agree with a previous post and say that there must be a balance....

[chefjohnpaul]

I agree that there must be a balance, but we also must be practical and acknowledge something in the most understandable common term staying close to it's roots. Let's face it 'haricot verts' are not just any kind of green bean so the French term best describes them.

What, are we going to stop saying 'roux' because it's a French term? "Hey, make some cooked flour & fat paste the consistancy of wet sand." Look, some French terms describe a mouthful in one word, i.e. 'roux'. This being 'in America thing', look English is a conglomeration of so many language roots it's rediculous. So we're in America, how can I describe French green beans in a milk based sauce thickened with a cooked flour and fat paste the consistancy of wet sand, in Navajo.?