Biggest Problem Facing Young Chefs

I am not a chef or a cook nor am I a culinary student. I have been interested in food and cooking since I was in the third grade. I got my first cookbook when I was still in elementary school. I did not go into the profession because where I grew up cooking wasn't really considered a profession.

With that said, I can see many similarities between the conversation here and what happens in my profession. There are kids who get into it and think they will make tons of money right away. They think that because they have a degree they know all there is to know. That is not true. My first reaction is to squash them. My second one, and the one I prefer to go with, is to teach them that there is something to be said for working your way up through the ranks. There is a lot of information that you learn through experience and from other more experienced people that you can't learn in school. There is also a lot that you learn from making mistakes. I went to a conference once where the speaker said to not be afraid to make mistakes. The ones who make the most mistakes are known as gurus. (I am in Information Technology and I have make some real whoppers but learned from every one.)

To the thought of being frustrated with Multi National Cuisine... Here is an opportunity to be involved with something not many other occupations have the honor of delving into!
We are in the midst of a Changing Time, and in a position to CHANGE THINGS. How impactful is it to be able change something as soulful as the way people sustain?
We are all the product of some one, in our lives, that gave us vision to be "into food". We were moved by something that made us love food, probably someone who’s culture was near and dear to them! Thank the maker for who ever that person was to you in your life.....
As for do we have to know so much about everything? YES! YOU DO! I would not recommend fusion to those who do not know the why's and how's of a Culture. Learn the details of what truly makes that cuisine and then build your intuition as to what will work.
I'll get off my soapbox now, I have said enough, but know that the answer is definitely YES you have to know it all! Will you ever? If you think you do, you are either lying to yourself or a fool! Julia once told me that she would learn until she dies! Let's hope she continues to learn for many years to come.
CHEERS TO YOU Niko and company!
Signed, Mary Ann's BO....

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[FatChef]

It's an opinion. A "Master Chef" is a title given or self proclaimed title that either comes from tradition or arrogance. I've worked for 5 of the 50 French Masters in the States, all great cooks, managers and bosses. I wouldn't say that the other 45 contain these qualities though. I think a chef is a chef. Some know about cooking, managing, and being a good person to the guys on the line. Most, however contain a combo of the three in a lesser fashion if they're lucky. A "Master" is not one titled by his peers but by the students who hold them on that pedestal.

[foodpump]

I get squeamish when the word "Chef" is bantered about, and downright nasty when the word "Masterchef" is used. Though I am Canadian, I take the European attitude to my profession. I apprenticed in Switzerland, and the apprenticeship was for three years. Upon completion of the apprenticeship, I was allowed to use the title "Cook"--not "Chef". Those who do not complete an apprenticeship, or even start one, can not call themselves "cook", but "hobbycook". After three or four years working as commis and then Chef de partie postions, you might then call yourself a "Chef". The Swiss have their highest degree the Culinary postion allows: Eidgenoische Diplomierte. A Federal Gov't recognized degree that requires 1) the apprenticeship, 2) minimum of 5 years work after the apprenticeship in 4 or 5 star houses, 3) Completed course that enables you to train apprentices, and 4) The Eid. Dip. course itself, which takes two years and has a 50% failure rate. This is the Swiss version of "Masterchef" and most of the Europeans have their versions.

As you can see, the apprenticeship is the leveler, the benchmark. All Chefs must originate with an apprenticeship, and employers can and will ask you to show this document. Because of this, there is very little abuse to the word "Chef", those who call themselves this usually deserve it, and those who don't are "found out" very quickly.

N.America IS a breeding ground for cooks who call themselves "Chefs" for the simple fact that there is no Federal Gov't benchmark. One school might pump out cooks every 6 mths, one might do it in two years, but there is no consistancy in the structure of the training, the depth of knowldege imparted, or even that all 14 methods of cooking are fully comprehended. It's wild west here, anything goes, anyone can call themselves "Chef" because there is no Gov't regulated criteria. Now, take other trades, plumbers/gasfitters or electricians. These tradespeople have to take Gov't approved classes and take Gov't approved tests before they get their tickets. A benchmark, a level playing field. If the guy has his electrician's ticket, you'd feel comfortable with him wiring your house. But a cook, just ties on an apron and he's a "cook".

If you have passion in this business, you will find the time to learn. I run my own business, which takes up most of my time, a family, yet I still find time to trot off to the library or bookstores to catch up on new and interesting stuff. But I remain focused in what I do, I don't jump to the next wunder-fad or ingrdient, I stick to what I feel has the maximum amount of flavour, presentation, and from the best ingredients I can afford. I comprehend and execute the 14 methods of cooking and never slouch on technique.

[Spritzer]

I got shouted at lots, i didnt like it

spritz

[Wyoming]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Well said Chef Ron. I agree, food cooked and presented perfectly whether it be a burger or a filet mignon is what it is about.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Mikeb]

Originally Posted by foodpump

I get squeamish when the word "Chef" is bantered about, and downright nasty when the word "Masterchef" is used. Though I am Canadian, I take the European attitude to my profession. I apprenticed in Switzerland, and the apprenticeship was for three years. Upon completion of the apprenticeship, I was allowed to use the title "Cook"--not "Chef". Those who do not complete an apprenticeship, or even start one, can not call themselves "cook", but "hobbycook". After three or four years working as commis and then Chef de partie postions, you might then call yourself a "Chef". The Swiss have their highest degree the Culinary postion allows: Eidgenoische Diplomierte. A Federal Gov't recognized degree that requires 1) the apprenticeship, 2) minimum of 5 years work after the apprenticeship in 4 or 5 star houses, 3) Completed course that enables you to train apprentices, and 4) The Eid. Dip. course itself, which takes two years and has a 50% failure rate. This is the Swiss version of "Masterchef" and most of the Europeans have their versions.

As you can see, the apprenticeship is the leveler, the benchmark. All Chefs must originate with an apprenticeship, and employers can and will ask you to show this document. Because of this, there is very little abuse to the word "Chef", those who call themselves this usually deserve it, and those who don't are "found out" very quickly.

N.America IS a breeding ground for cooks who call themselves "Chefs" for the simple fact that there is no Federal Gov't benchmark. One school might pump out cooks every 6 mths, one might do it in two years, but there is no consistancy in the structure of the training, the depth of knowldege imparted, or even that all 14 methods of cooking are fully comprehended. It's wild west here, anything goes, anyone can call themselves "Chef" because there is no Gov't regulated criteria. Now, take other trades, plumbers/gasfitters or electricians. These tradespeople have to take Gov't approved classes and take Gov't approved tests before they get their tickets. A benchmark, a level playing field. If the guy has his electrician's ticket, you'd feel comfortable with him wiring your house. But a cook, just ties on an apron and he's a "cook".

If you have passion in this business, you will find the time to learn. I run my own business, which takes up most of my time, a family, yet I still find time to trot off to the library or bookstores to catch up on new and interesting stuff. But I remain focused in what I do, I don't jump to the next wunder-fad or ingrdient, I stick to what I feel has the maximum amount of flavour, presentation, and from the best ingredients I can afford. I comprehend and execute the 14 methods of cooking and never slouch on technique.

I agree with this somewhat. The word 'chef' is definitely abused around here. I disagree however that you need 'official' credentials to be a 'chef'. IMO a chef is someone who is THE boss in a kitchen cooking at a high level. Anything less is just a cook (or apprentices below cooks). I personally don't have any papers, however I have been an apprentice, and a chef de partie at the highest level restaurants around here (even worked for a few French chefs).

BTW, in Canada there 'are' government certifications for the cooking profession, however only hotels seem to care about papers. I've also worked with 'certified' cooks who couldn't make a mayonnaise, and non-certified chefs who are incredibly skilled.

[foodpump]

Mike, at least we're on the same wavelength. Sometimes I'll take a bucket with me when I go over resumes because everyone calls themselves "chef"; sandwich chef, prep chef, day chef, salad chef, and even use the word chef as a verb: "" I've been "Cheffing" for..."

I, too, have worked with "qualified" Chefs who made Hollandaise with a commercial mayo base because they couldn't do it otherwise, who had no idea how to calculate foodcost, couldn't portion a steak to save their lives and as a result got screwed royally by every butcher...I've "trained" red seal Chefs how to put a simple Hobart meat grinder attachment together (and again, and again...) how to make a simple chicken stock with (gasp!) chicken bones, how not to dump raw chicken into a finshed chicken noodle soup just before service.

In order for me to respect my boss, the Chef, he has to know as much or more than I do about cooking. How many times have I walked into a new kitchen to find cooks slapping a raw chix brst into a cold pan, drizzle it with oil, and THEN turn on the flame? The Chef never bothered to instruct, probably because he doesn't know how. This is where I get frustrated, the man is in charge, but doesn't know diddly-squat, and even worse, pretends he does and hates anyone who knows more than he, and will ultimately try to get them out of their kitchen. This is not the usal scene in Europe, for not only do you need money to operate a restaurant, which is the only criteria in N.America, but you also have to have a Restauranteur's license, which is no mean feat. As a result, most kitchens in Europe are professionally run, and not some dream about running a place on a shoe string because you've got a great meatloaf or carrot cake recipie, and with no experience in the hospitality biz.

N.America has no standard for cooking instruction. Some schools offer excellent courses, with great instructors, and some are commercial enterprises, run on a profit basis, with the bulk of their students from foreign countries, offering an easy way to get a student visa with out the hassle of full-time University. Most employers, including myslef, refuse to look at paper credentials for cook applicants, it means nothing. The first 4 hours on the job will tell me everything I need to know.

But an apprenticehip is different, it is a benchmark. If you've passed it, then you know how to make a Bearnaise, a fumet de poission, a decent stew, know how to put a meatgrinder together, know how to walk through the kitchen without causeing a wake of destruction behind you. As an employer in Europe you have a very good chance when hiring an apprenticed cook, that he/she actually knows how to cook, and the rest of the brigade know that too.

[clark5454]

In my oppinion the biggest problem facing young chefs today is in the realization that the money sucks.What i mean by that is being prepared either to hone your craft while being paid little or to jump in when your not ready for a dollar more.

[clark5454]

this isint europe,maybe its time to set our own standards.I believe the ranking of cec has started to be used correctly here.An apprinticeship is f
eudal,you may as well call it free help in a lot of circumstances.What i like to do is not eat at places that are not good,who cares if the guy out back using the microwave calls himself a chef.When you mention plumbers and electricians does this also mean that the pay is going to be structured as so also(you ever hired a plumber and paid the bill?)when you get down to it it is the public,the demand that has been created.the more restaurants that open the more underqualified people you will have in the kitchens.should the government be able to tell me i cant open a restaurant because they think i cant cook.Also look at the scandals that have come out about the michelin guide and the beard house.on hiring someone that has been an apprentice or not,just have them cook something for you,pick up a knife and chop something or actually call a reference,4 hours isnt even needed.Im happy with myself as a chef that really is what being a chef is

[foodpump]

Some good points there. What's that saying?..."The blind leading the blind?"... There are very few THOROUGHLY trained cooks here in N. America that it's downright embarrassing. You can get your training through the school of hard knocks, but it will be 5 or 10 times longer than a proper apprenticeship, with no guarantees that the education will be complete. So if the Chef isn't throughly trained, he can't possibly thoroughly train his cooks. Which is how you get the cold chicken breast in a cold pan and then turn on the heat scenerio, or removing a baron of beef from a roasting pan and throwing out the drippings because the chef has absolutely no idea how to convert those drippings into a decent sauce, or throwing dry pasta into tepid water, turning on the heat, and as an afterthought, throwing in some salt. This problem is intesified by suppliers who supply ready made sauces, entrees, etc, so that very little skill is needed to open a package and heat it.

Think of an apprenticeship as a boot camp for the army. Almost every army in the world demands that EVERYONE goes through the bootcamp, future officers, I-corp, etc, are then later creamed off after completion. It is a common leveler, everyone starts off knowing the same thing, and then it's up to their own ambition to learn more, but if they've gone through the course, you're guaranteed that they know the minimum. My point is that if a Chef finaly gets his CEC/ Red Seal/ ACF/whatever "papers", how many cooks has he improperly trained before he realises that his knowlege on the subject is incomplete and needs more work? Most of these "papers" require the Chef to be in a supervisory postion BEFORE he applies to write them, and now they test him after he's (improperly) trained X amount of cooks?! The damage is done.

Restaurants in N.America have a bad failure rate. No knowledge or experience is needed to run one, and as a result they are poorly run. Since the 1800's, immigrants have come to this country, and not being able to find work in their field, scraped cash together to open up a restaurant. This is as true today as it was 150 years ago. By looking at the small businesses for sale website in this city, I cans see no fewer than 11 places up for sale, all with ethnic cooking, and most shut down due to poor management, or health, WCB, or Fire code violations. Yet these places operate, and they need staff. When the owner, who has forked out $60 for a S/S pot, burns it dry, and then freaks out and rushes to fill it with cold water, it warps and ruins it, but since it costs $60 the owner insists that the staff continue using it. So either you learn that cold water in a dry burned pot ruins it, or you learn that its allright to use a warped rock & roll pot to cook with. No teacher there to tell you what's right or wrong. Same with applying vegetable oil to the meat slicer. Owner/Chef doesn't know any better and is confused when the slicer is so gummed up that you can't move the carriage. Or how to properly clean out a deep fryer, how to poach an egg properly, how to braise, how to roast.

Alot of the smaller places, especially those with immigrant owners know nothing about heath codes, WCB or fire codes. For most, their line of logic is that these inspectors are looking for bribes or out to make their lives miserable. I've worked at one place where the hood was so choked with grease, that the owner would put a 1/4 bolt through the fire extinguisher on the suppresion system and use a small cheap portable extinguisher to put the fire out that would appear regularly every week. Simply refused to get the hood cleaned because it " Cost so much moneys!"

Ditto for payrolling. "I 'll pay you when I have the money, maybe next week" Heard that one before? How are you supposed to pay your rent or gas? And then the owner gets ready to kill when someone calls the labour board when he/she hasn't been paid in almost 6 weeks .

Ditto for health codes too. A Restauranteurs course would ensure that owners are at least AWARE of the codes and laws in place, how to use them to their advantage. And maybe so many mistakes wouldn't happen due to ignorance, and these mistakes not be perpetuated because they were allowed to happen in the first place.

[kitcook]

I attempted to read between the lines of verbal posturing and still I didnt read one actual problem facing a young chef. Although I do think its an oxymoron to say young chef, like jumbo shrimp. As things stand now, the title chef is just the guy in charge, now can he cook? that's the real question.

How amazing to be only 23 and be exec chef! holy cow! you lucky dog. Why the whining? Respect is earned and here it was handed to you. Now you have this tool you can use, that's wonderful. Its not a problem, its a blessing. I wish I was so lucky.

[100folds]

Originally Posted by Philip

How about this? SCREW the chef title. Lets just cook, Cook with the love of God so that we may feed the hearts of humankind. It ain't rocket science. Titles,titles, titles..ie.,yada,yada,yada!

amen!
Reading all of this it sounds not just like a young boy pissing contest but a pissing contest of all ages. Why are you people in this industry? Do you love the kitchen? Do you love food? Do you love the history, the culture the science of food? If not then maybe you should re - exam your priorities. That's why we have so many arses out there, running kitchens and they don't have a clue what they are doing. They are young, they are old, they are skinny and they are fat!!! What we should really be talking about is what is required as a chef. We can't put a formula to that, meaning you can't say 3 years at garde manager, another 2 at entremet and hold a sous position for another 5. We all work at different speeds. What we need to look at is what is the attitude, where is the passion and what has the person done to fill that passion.
I've worked for young and old chefs. They both had positive and negitive points. I never worked for a chef that I felt I knew more than because that would be a waste of my time! I still have a tremendous amount to learn and will not take a chef position until I have fulfilled all that I have set out for myself. Trust me, the goals will keep me going for a long time.
Who wants to be a chef before they are ready anyways. I watch my chef now, work 12 hour days 6 days a week. Always screaming and viens popping out of his neck. I don't want that right now and probably don't want to be like that when I get there. I couldn't do his job right now. That's that.

[Stephanie Brim]

Bringing this up again, I do have something to add.

Working at a truck stop can build character, even if it is only for one day. Here's the story.

I was kind of thinking of going to culinary school and I really, really needed a job quickly. I had bills to pay and I couldn't afford to be dilly-dallying around looking for the perfect job. I settled on working for a Country Kitchen. I worked on the grill/griddle. Lots of eggs, waffles, pancakes, sausage, and bacon went through me before it got to the customer. The guy who was training me, the manager for the morning crew, did something that I'm never, ever going to forget and it's probably one of the reasons that I want to go into food service. I dropped a sausage on the floor. He picked it up, put it back on the grill, proceeded to tell me that the 'dirt will cook off', and put it on a customer's plate. I worked the rest of my shift that day (which mainly consisted of prepping and breading chicken for frying), got home, slept very little that night, and quit the next day. I haven't eaten there since.

Why does this make me want to go into the food industry? So that I can eventually get high enough to prevent this from happening again. Not only did it turn me off of that restaurant, but the entire chain. I don't want to eat somewhere that they will hire just anyone. The guy was fired afterward, apparently, but not for some time after I left. It was a horrible experience.

One of the problems that I face every day in my struggle to get into this industry is the lack of good places to eat where I live. In this town we have only two great restaurants: The Emporium, which makes burgers and some more sophisticated dishes, and Leon's, which is the best pizza and fried chicken in town. Of the two, Leon's is where I'd rather work. He makes his own crust, his own sauce, and chops his own toppings. He also makes most of his other menu choices from scratch. It's a family-owned restaurant with a great laid-back atmosphere and friendly, laid-back service. I feel at home there. I would, however, love to see a formal dining restaurant here and would love working there as a prep cook. Even if I didn't get to touch the menu (which of course I wouldn't...lowly servant to the chef that I would be), I'd at least get to prepare or help prepare some of the dishes that are similar to things that I have ideas for. To get fine dining around here, you pretty much have to go all the way to Des Moines (70 miles from where I am) and a lot of the really good places are new. The Bravo Cucina, an Italian restaurant in the new Jordan Creek complex, is the best I've ever eaten in Iowa. I thought about saving up enough money to rent an apartment for a month and beg the chef to let me work in his kitchen as a volunteer, but I doubt it would happen. I'm kind of in debt too much at the moment to think about doing something like that.

Living in a small town is the main thing holding me back from doing any of this professionally. The love of food and cooking and menial things such as chopping up a pepper and making a simple ganache is there, but the ability to do it in a restaurant isn't. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to get the experience for CIA if I can't even find a suitable place to work around here. Not having a driver's license is holding me back more than anything, really.

As an aspiring chef in a small town, it's the small town itself that's holding me back. Not having access is a big issue. I'm thinking of paying off all my debt, getting some money together by working two jobs, and then going to a bigger city like Chicago or New York and getting a job as a prep cook in a restaurant. I know of a place in Minnesota that I could go to, actually, due to the guy having worked in a town 20 miles away from here: the guy knows my mother. Leaving my life here behind to follow this dream seems to be the only way I'm ever going to make it. Kind of depressing.

[shahed]

i agree with jean-baptiste's comments on page 1.

I am 23 and after working in a family business i decided to go to catering school and it really is scary how true he is on this one. I see it everyday in the kitchen, people just dont have patience anymore. They want to reach their goals over night and if they dont, they quit or have a negative attitude. Ironicly look at the lenghts of scenes in new movie releases, well at this rate will all be watching cartoons again.

Personally i feel lucky to be getting involved with the industry at the present time. There is a wealth of information around me and plenty of jobs to choose from. The industry is far more advanced and very giving to low skilled professionals.

As far as goals and future plans go, i think people get far too confused. Young chefs in my eyes should just be listning, cooking and tasting, soaking everything up like a sponge.

Personally i want to be the best chef i can be, so the only thing i care about is the food. Yeah you can brag about how many people youve managed and how many places youve worked in. But to me that should all come much later.

Put your heart and soul into finding your style, take as long as it takes and enjoy it. But whatever you do, do the best you can.

Oh and remember somewhere out there, theres someone doing that little bit more than you.

regards,

shahed