when can you call yourself a chef?

[a la carte]

ugh - why can't anyone be a chef - you cook, you love it, you're a chef. Jesus - why the snob factor?

[deltadoc]

Originally Posted by Jim

You know, we have gone back and forth about the 'chef' title in the past. So, let's get constructive, eh? How about writing an objective definition of which we can all (or most of us) agree. I propose, for instance, listing the attributes of a chef and then assembling those attributes into a meanigful definition.
Ideas?

Here are some definitions gleaned from the "Web":

a professional cook
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn


(French) A culinary expert. The chief of the kitchen.
www.ddc.com/cheferic/gloss.htm


1} A very grumpy man or woman who is in charge of creating foods and food combinations. 2} One who has access to very large knives.
[url]lifeintheweeds.tripod.com/lifeintheweeds/Jargon.html

doc

[Mikeb]

The way I see it, a Chef is kind of like a CEO. When you graduate from business school you don't become a CEO overnight, it's something earned through years of hard work... Same for a chef - when you graduate you're a professional cook, after years of hard work you might become a chef. Chef = leader of the kitchen, not just a cook with a diploma...

[Mikeb]

Originally Posted by a la carte

ugh - why can't anyone be a chef - you cook, you love it, you're a chef. Jesus - why the snob factor?

It has nothing to do with snobbery. Chef literally means leader, the chef is the leader of the kitchen. It's a title earned through years of hard work. You wouldn't call someone with a first aid certificate doctor, it's a title which requires years of education and hard work... Cooks get their education in the field, only after mastering cooking techniques (which does take years) and running a kitchen are they called Chef...

[Jim]

"ugh - why can't anyone be a chef - you cook, you love it, you're a chef. Jesus - why the snob factor?"

Hardly worth a reply, but here goes...
I like animals and I give them medicine when they are sick... I guess I am a vet....
I run and I enjoy it, so I guess I am an olympian...
I use a computer and I enjoy it, so I am a programmer...

Like MikeB said, it has nothing to do with snobbery. I has to do with hard work, dedication, SKILL, leadership and, above all, experience.

[Frizbee]

I know my question prompted this discussion, and I think in the abstract it depends on what job title you have, or what your boss titles you. I certainly can’t call my self an engineer if I am in the kitchen cooking, I would have no business doing as much. Since I am going to be the boss I shall bill myself as Chef. My only concern was criticism from my culinary community, but in soul searching, I have realized that every chef started being called chef at some point and the first time they were called Chef I am sure it was a reflection of their job title. We don’t call each other Chef on the line after all, we are cooks. I guess I was just having anxiety about it.
Two other points I would like to address...someone mentioned that some people get stuck on the title, and I agree. Those people do seem more pompous and not who I am. I would introduce myself as such, in professional situations, but not flip if an employee or client failed to call me "Chef ...".
Also I think that we forget that Chef can precede many titles, meaning it is a shortened version of exe chef, sous chef, chef garde manger, etc.. and has more commonly been used to refer to the top person in charge of that kitchen. However I have called sous "Chef", and so on, and I personally think that anyone who is in charge of a particular food prep, like Chef garde manger, would rate the reference.
I have know some who have refused to refer to some exe chefs as Chef, because they were of poor personality or caliber, and I think that is sad. You can't take anyone's experience or education away from them, and if they have put in the time, and garnered the education they should be referred to as such, especially if that is their title. I just referred to them as Chef ******* quietly under my breath.

[Bill]

As for my two cents worth,

I've been in this buisness for over twenty years,and in that time I've been called several things,until I took a position as the Sous Chef many years ago I never called myself "CHEF" , since that time I've earned the title from hard work,continuing education and testing with the American Culinary Federation, I tested and earned my "Sous Chef" title several years ago and later "Chef de Cuisine" and I'm now working on my "Executive Chef" certification,after that comes " Master Chef",I doubt I'll ever live that long :-)

[Pete]

We can spend hours debating over what "chef" means. We all have our personal opinions about who has the right to call themselves "chef", but when it comes down to it, a chef is the leader (ruler, chief, head) of the kitchen. He is the one who makes all the "big picture" decisions, and is the one ultimately held responsible for running of the kitchen and its profitability. Under that definition, anyone that runs a kitchen has the right to call themselves "chef". It doesn't matter if it is McD's, a Mom and Pop diner or a 5-star restaurant. That said, I too attach many more stipulations to the title "chef". I don't like to use the title "chef" when refering to myself as I don't feel I have achieved that status, and I don't use that title when speaking with " chefs" that I don't feel have earned it either. To me, personally, "chef" is a title of respect, but ultimately it is a very utilitarian term used to denote the person in charge of a kitchen. I am not bothered by all the inexperienced people and hacks out there throwing the term around. I laugh at the recent culinary school grad who, too quickly, takes a management job and calls himself "Chef", because I know when the s*** hits the fan, and the tickets start rolling in, who will be left standing.

[Chef Ed]

well said Pete

[deltadoc]

I have a different perspective on being or not being called "Chef".

I have a degree in Physics. No one has ever called me Physicist Roger.

I've been an medical device design Engineer for 33 years, and no one has ever called me Engineer Roger.

I can talk about intrathecal drug delivery and hold my own with the best MD's in the world on that subject, and while I'm not an MD, everyone calls me doc roger!

I am not a professional musician, but when I play Mississippi Delta slide blues on my 1935 National Duolian guitar, some of the world's greatest professional blues musicians have told me that I'm about as good as it gets, so they call me Delta Doc Roger. (As Artie Traum (brother of Happy Traum-Homespun Tapes) once said, "Ya gonna play slide, ya gotta have three names!"

Go figure!

doc

[Chef Ed]

hey Doc....


1st of all...being a "Chef" is sort of like a right of passage. A boy turns into a young man, and so forth hitting different stages of life.

A prep cook turns into a cook, a cook to a chef. Sort of the same idea. Not knocking any other profession, but the cooking industry is more of a lifestyle. Not that any other job or career doesnt' have these characteristics, but I can attest that cooking professionally is more of a way of life. With this said, the rights of passage comes with life, and hense the kitchen does as well. It's not just moving up in ranks or "graduating" to the next level. It's the life you choose as a Culinarian.

In short(too late for that), you may be good at playing the drums, you may be great at bowling, you may be the best at playing baseball, but nothing you can say, or do can compare to the life of a kitchen scrub.

Tell me, what other career can you start off at the bottom, work your way up the ladder, all the way to the top, then as life goes on you are moved back down the ladder to the same place you started when you get older.
????? Hummmm wow the life of a Chef.
MOST....I stress most.. start off as a dishwasher...they then get hooked on the food, money(somtimes) and the fun that goes with working in the kitchen. Then you want more, so you look to move up to prep cook, and then to the stage of cook...then you push and push to be a Sous Chef....then Executive Chef......woops..then you start getting old.....you can't handle the stress any longer...you move back down to Sous... then that gets to be too much, so you look for a job as just a cook....then woops too old for that now, then you BOOM you are right back to where you started, a dishwasher.

And so back to what you say about just being good at something doesn't grant you the right of a title, you are right. But just being good at cooking will NEVER grant you the right at being called a Chef. It' s the life of being a Chef that grants us the right to have the title. Not that I'm big on titles, it's only a word, I could care less. When you try and compare playing someone elses work on an instrument and being a Chef, I must say you may be smart, but you have NO idea what you are talking about.

nuff said, and sorry for being so long winded.

Chef Ed

[deltadoc]

Originally Posted by Chef Ed

When you try and compare playing someone elses work on an instrument and being a Chef, I must say you may be smart, but you have NO idea what you are talking about.
Chef Ed

Hi Chef Ed,
I was enjoying your post until I got to the part where you felt it necessary to bash me.

You know what that tells me, here is guy who says that titles don't mean that much, that it's only a word, and you could care less. But then, you come across as very defensive about your title as "Chef". That's ok.

Generally speaking, people who have inferiority complexes need something like "titles" to feel good about themselves. Especially when they feel the need to bash someone that "threatens" them, does it become very apparent that the title is what gives you a feeling of self-worth. So be it.

Me...I don't need a title to have sense of self worth. I don't feel the need to bash somebody when I feel threatened. Just for the sake of setting things straight, smart does not cut it. There are plenty of "smart" people out there that couldn't play an instument or cook if their life depended upon it. And to be a "chef' requires something more than being smart, it requires talent. Same with being a musician. Amateur or professional, you either have it or you don't. The point that you missed is why do chefs like you feel that someone who is not a "professional" cannot be worthy, when world class musicians have no problem with recognizing talent, regardless if that talent is professional or amateur, and you, as chef, cannot??



You think that a world class professional musician is any the less involved with music in their life than you are with your culinary pursuits?

You missed the point completely. I wasn't trying to compare playing an instrument with being a chef. I was trying to point out that talent is talent, and no matter where you are, or who you are, if you have talent, you got it.

Professional musicians, or professional chefs, whatever, if you feel the need to "have" a title to feel important, then you are missing something vital in your life.

Next time you try to bash someone like me, try taking a look in the mirror and repeat what you said to me.

doc

[Chef Ed]

doc....

what i got out of your post, was someone that was triing to compare the life of a chef, with someone else where no "Titles" are used. So before you go on about my self worth, why don't you try and get off your high horse. And as far as my "title" like i said....I'm just a glorified dishwasher and could care less about someone calling me chef....as a matter of fact in my 6 kitchens all of my staff refers to me as Ed or Chef, it's their call.
I'm not stuck on myself, like someone has posted, I'm just one of the highest paid dishwashers in Michigan.

and as far as my names here in the Forum...well the name "Ed" was already taken.

so before you can try and act like you know me, and try to ramble on about someone you have no clue about...try looking at yourself before judging others, and how hard they may work or how passionate they may feel about how hard they work at something like being a chef.

untill then...you can take your degree and well.......i won't say it here in the forums. But I will say, I would love for you to spend a year working in a high volume kitchen and see how you would react.

[Jim]

Hey, fellas....

You can certainly have a witty and insightful exchange of opposing viewpoints without getting personal. THere's already enough anger in the world; let's enjoy each other's company whether or not the other person enjoys our perspective or not.

[deltadoc]

Hi Chef Ed,
I'm sorry if what I say has offended you. Wasn't my intent.

doc