Ethics: A complicated sauce.

[Rivitman]

rzn, at this point, i have to agree.
We are an event facility, and caterer, not a resaurant. We typically are not open for business on christmas, easter, or thanksgiving.

Today I recieved head up that the owner has booked a thanksgiving dinner party on behal of "personal friends".

We may not recieve formal notification until monday.
Everyone in the kitchen has plans for the holiday.

The Chef and I (both salaried) will likely come in and knock it out ourselves, just to be kind to our subordinates, and to avoid giving them another in a long list of reasons to quit with the holiday avalanche facing us. Neither the chef nor I will see a day off for the first 23 days of december.

Come january, I plan to be very firm in my requirements to stay on. I am fully prepared to resign on the spot if no agreement is reached. The consensus I'm getting is that I am both a little crazy, as well as being taken advantage of improperly.

[kuan]

I can see why this place goes through chefs once a year.

Jeez, that's totally taking advantage of you, and you're both too nice.

[shroomgirl]

Today I recieved head up that the owner has booked a thanksgiving dinner party on behal of "personal friends".


What would happen if you premade the food or had a grocery store that's open do Thanksgiving....FYI Thanksgiving, Easter, Christmas, New Years are all dbl time up to 3x for New Years.

[nightcook]

Originally Posted by shroomgirl

What would happen if you premade the food or had a grocery store that's open do Thanksgiving....FYI Thanksgiving, Easter, Christmas, New Years are all dbl time up to 3x for New Years.

Shroomgirl,

I may be misreading you post, but are you saying chefs that work these holiday should be paid double and triple time?

Bill

[Rivitman]

The latest word is that the turkey day party will not happen.

But as you can see I am up at 3am this morning (forum time is GMT I am on U.S. west coast). Last saturday, more of the same. Up at 2:30 am in by 4:30, out at 6:30 pm.

[Free Rider]

I am a salaried employee in a different business. I am also available 24/7/365 without the hours being counted. Big difference, however... If I get the job done in less time, I work less hours. If I don't, I work more. I also choose the "unusual hours" and can refuse without consequences (usually a tv news show interview at 5 am or some such is the unusual hours bit).

Here's what I see is the problem... my responsibilities are clearly outlined and yours are not. Rather than being responsible for x meals per month, you are responsible for x + boss' desire. If you are going to be paid by your output, no matter how long it takes you, you must clearly define the output (# meals, whatever). Otherwise, you should be paid by your input (your hours).

[Free Rider]

PS By "meals", I mean number of dinner services etc, not piecework such as number of steak dianes.

[Rivitman]

I think it very reasonable to maintain a position that when one takes a salaried poition, that one needs to make hay while the sun shines. But if the sun shines a lot, one should not get burned. A reasonable expectation of a salaried employee would be that the higher ups use good judgement and discretion regarding the salaried individual's workload.

Just what constitutes good judgement and discretion on the part of our GM and ownership seems to stretch those concepts beyond the breaking point.

[Free Rider]

Certainly make hay while the sun shines, but you have no outline under your contract. For instance, I have to produce a publication... I must write articles, analyse data, coordinate editorial assistance, etc. At the end of the day, my obligation is to get the publication out on time and looking good. If I encounter obstacles or take my time getting it done, then I must work more hours. If I have an easy time, I work less hours. I make hay while the sun shines. My contract is explicit about the output... number of publications per month, titles included, expectations about content included. If my responsibilities are expanded, my salary expands at the next review.

Same should apply for a chef position. If the position requires a certain amount of profit be reached, so be it. Determine your contract by output... X amount of money, X amount of services or whatever, but determine it. Otherwise you have a nebulous "contract" of sorts in which you've signed up to do the boss' bidding, tantamount to being his slave.

Either define the contract by input... hours you will work and therefore an hourly-paid employee...

Or define the contract by output... how much you will produce, whether it be number of services per month, dollars per annum, whatever, therefore a salaried employee.

[Rivitman]

Linking salary to revenue sounds like a good idea. But it isn't really.
My job is to assure that my end, the food, contributes it's full share to sucessful functions, while maintaining resonable food and labor costs. As well as keeping the place clean, and the health department happy. This is my only mechanism to generate revenue, and it gets done, every day.

I don't sell the functions.
I don't price them, and I have little to no input on the price per menu item. I ca nonly advise on service, advice usually ignored.

How about a "meals served" basis?
That doesn't really work either, as we are an 'anything you want' caterer, and the actual difficulty and time involved can vary wildly from function to function.

By hours? No, I'm not punching clock as a salaried employee. A slow january in no way compensates for what December is to me.

The only way to handle it is my judgement of the subjective value of the job. This, of course will differ with the Gm's and the owners. But that is just tough.
I have had, and continue to have, a standing offer:
Pick any three days in december, and just stand next to me. Don't do or say anything, Just shadow me, EVERYWHERE.
I'd have the GM crying like a little girl; the owners would last about an hour.
fact is, neither one of the has ever spent more than thirty continuous seconds in the Kitchen, and choose to remain remote, detached, and ignorant of the facts.
Ignorance is NOT bliss in this case, and I won't understand come review time either.

[epicous]

You can talk to the owner or begin to search for another job.
This situation was not expected.

[Free Rider]

Well, Rivitman, without a measure of success or completion of the job, there is nothing you can do. I suggest you really find a measure. Profit/revenue is not the measure you like even though you state it is your purpose. Even salaried employees only work 40 hours/5 days a week. If the job takes longer then either 1) the employee is incompetent or 2) the job definition is not correct.

So how do you measure your success at the job? When do you feel you've done a good job?

[Rivitman]

If our sales force were competant, then revenue would be the measure.
But when janitors have to show clients around the building because sales has gone home for the day?

No way.

Some clients require a tasting before signing on the dotted line.
No problem, we ALWAYS win them over with a tasting. But these usually occur in the evenings, and there is NOBODY from sales on hand to close the deal.

Additionally, our sales force never sets foot outside the building, and for some beaurocratic reason, ot takes a minimum of three client visits (including a meeting with the owner) before an function can be booked.


My only measure are:

1: the event closing reports. Was the event sucessful from the food side? Was the client happy?

2:Is food and labor cost under control?

3:How exhausted and mentally beat down am I? How much personal time do I recieve?

So in the end analysis, what the GM and the ownership think of as fair compensation is completely irrelevant to me.
I'll simply make them an offer. One I think is fair.
I'm a cook. I can work anywhere.
But I'll think long and hard before accepting a salaried position ever again.

[Gord]

Hey riv,

I realize you're salaried, but I hope you are tracking the actual hours you're working.

Your boss seemingly knows nothing about the kitchen (or preventing staff burnout) but I'm sure he understands numbers.

If you estimate that in the "real" world you would be expected to work 37.5 hours per week on average that would be 1875 hours per year (plus 2 weeks holiday).

Take your salary and divide by that "norm". Then take your salary and divide it by the actual number of hours you are working. If your salary would "normally" work out to, say, $25.00 an hour ($46,875 per annum) but your actual working hours average out to 60 per week, your actual earning would be in the neighbourhood of $15.62 per hour ($46875 divided by 3000 hours).

These are numbers your boss should be able to understand and he can then choose to offer to:

a. increase your salary to reflect the extra time and effort,
b. reduce all the extras he keeps throwing at you, or
c. a little of both (although I would want him to have a "budget" of how many extra events/hours he can throw at you before you can either say no or he has to pay you some bonus money).

It would also be prudent of him to offer a bonus for the past year's service in order to keep such a loyal employee happy. Especially if he is made aware that you know specifically how much extra you've been providing.

p.s. - It takes a special kind of sales moron to leave their tentative deal in someone else's hands, but....if nobody from sales is there to close the deal you should be earning partial commission from the sale.

My two cents, for what it's worth
Gord

[MISNO]

Originally Posted by Gord

Hey riv,


These are numbers your boss should be able to understand and he can then choose to offer to:

a. increase your salary to reflect the extra time and effort,
b. reduce all the extras he keeps throwing at you, or
c. a little of both (although I would want him to have a "budget" of how many extra events/hours he can throw at you before you can either say no or he has to pay you some bonus money).

It would also be prudent of him to offer a bonus for the past year's service in order to keep such a loyal employee happy. Especially if he is made aware that you know specifically how much extra you've been providing.

In a perfect world with perfect employers, that would be great! The restaurant business is replete with individuals who are salaried, typically at the management level, and most are told upfront that they are expected to "be there when the business is there".

If one makes it to the management level, by that time, the individual should *know* that they have to be there, be it 5 days a week or seven. I always make sure I'm present for volume or functions...if I have to work 7 days, fine...I'll take a couple of days-in-lieu. If you're working six or seven days a week on a regular basis, you're likely understaffed. I've been there many times.

My employer has made no bones about the fact that they expect a minimum of 50 hours/week (I'm salaried), and be present "when the business is there", also, "run it like it's my own business". I expect the same out of my other salaried employees --- spread the onus and workload around --- delegate --- so there is no reason to BE at work on a regular basis for 6 or 7 days/week.

Let's face it, the buck stops with the Chef...I have no one to turn to when sh*t hits the fan! I've learned to treat my head chef jobs like I own the place...I have advanced in salary AND respect a lot further this way over the years.

This is where I sit on the situation...I'm conditioned for the long hours and 'abuse' as it where, over the 17 years I've spent in kitchens.

If you have a legitimate beef about your current workload, be upfront and approach your boss...do not let it fester and become a blowout.

My $0.02