[YoungGun]

Hey there,

I've been recently having troubles cooking, eating, and especially butchering most red meats- lamb, beef, etc, as well as pork due to the fact that my conscience is creeping up on me. I've done a small amount of research which has made me feel even worse about it- pigs are the 5th smartest animal it seems, and many studies have shown a distinct registration of fear/anxiety even before the actual killing process of the animal. It seems that cows, sheep, lambs, pigs, and various other animals we use for meat are relatively high-functioning and thinking. They have memories and exhibit human characteristics and feelings including love, jealousy, and fear. I'm wondering, after a lifetime of eating meat, if I will be able to get over my conscience, or if it's something I even want to get over. I'm questioning why we condemn societies eating dogs, cats, tigers, and horses when we're eating one animal that is technically more intelligent than any of them, and several others of equal intelligence and feeling.

So my question is, how do you view farm and other animals commonly eaten in the Western world? Do you have a theory or information that makes you sleep better after processing and serving/eating it?

(side note: I seem to not put chicken or fish on the level of the aforementiioned animals, but opinions on them are appreciated as well.)

-youngGun

[shel]

I know pigs are pretty smart creatures, and that cows can show signs of fear and anxiety when being led to slaughter. I've no reason to believe that other animals don't have similar responses. Essentially, I just minimize what I eat in the way of animal proteins as much as possible, and when I do eat such meat it's mostly chicken, turkey or fish. That's not to say I never eat pork or red meat, but it's rare, and generally I only buy such meat when I know about the provider and the slaughtering methods. A sometimes exception is when eating in a restaurant.

I am concerned about the inhumane way some animals are slaughtered. Things are getting better in that regard, which is as it should be, but there are still too many instances where animals are raised and slaughtered inhumanely and with little or no concern for their well being. Fortunately, there are many providers who raise, handle, and slaughter their animals with care and appreciation.

Shel

[bluezebra]

Young Gun, I would say follow your conscience. But know this...That the PETA movement is strong. And they are also very present in the anthropomorphism movement (imbuing animals with human attributes) or rebirth we as a culture seem to be experiencing.

I'm not discounting they may feel fear, pain, etc. All animals, even single cell amoebas have a pain reflex! So I do want them handled and slaughtered humanely and given a good life up to the point of slaughter. But I come back to the fact that being a Christian my rules are that God gave us animals to be good stewards over and to use for our benefit.

Happy cooking to you!

BZ

[pgr555]

I haven't eaten red meat, pork or poultry for around 30 years. I do eat fish & seafood. I cook meat for others when necessary. I would agree that following your conscience is the best you can do.
pgr

[jigz369]

I've personally never had any problem with eating red meat, or had any concern over the "humane" way they are butchered. I worked on a kill floor at a beef cutting and rendering plant and the last thing on my list was "did that poor cow feel any pain?". I'm more concerned about how that "poor cow" is going to taste after I cook it and slide a delectable slice into my waiting mouth.
Just my opinion though....

[YoungGun]

Yes that is where I tend to get hung up- if an animal is slaughtered, can it really be humane?

By standards, yes. Killing a cow by stunning it and beginning the process while it's alive versus a humane version done by a farmer who has raised the cow from birth is hardly debatable with regards to humaneness. However, I wonder slaughtering an animal in any way is humane. I mean...it's called slaughtering, not "rendering" or "processing" or "lovingly and respectfully taking life from the animal for human benefit."

Christian beliefs aside (and with respect to them), I wonder if any human could reasonably argue for this without using the belief that animals are simply and (ulitmately) solely here for human consumption.

Also, what meats are strictly off your lists?

[thetincook]

The only meat that is strictly off the table is human.

There is a very good reason for "humane" slaughter. Animals that are stressed before slaughter produce terrible quality meat. For example PSE in pork. Here is an interesting article about it.

I don't buy any of the moral arguments against eating meat I've heard so far. I do think we have a duty of stewerdship to properly care for animals we raise, but I haven't spent a lot of time navel gazing on the issue.

No reason to feel bad for eating meat. Our predecessors (apes on up to us) ate meat.

But hey, if it makes you feel better, might as well skip the steak.

[tessa]

in that being a smaller country the animals have much more land to roam on before being led off to market and so there fore you dont get that forcefed small enclosure thing that a lot of countries have for their animals as much.

I think that we all should be able to know that the animals are treated well before and during their demise, , as tincook said animals that are treated badly produce bad meat, and as people who collectively work and enjoy food like we all do on here, we want to know that either our customers or family and freinds are getting the best deal that they can afford .

I dont think its right to have these kinds of animals as pets , or give them names iedaisy or bertha or what ever and then eat them, as then it seems tthat human traits and characteristics are inadvertently projected on them , and so therefore its like killing off one of your family.

I have nothing against vegetarians or vegetarianism please dont get me wrong, but i do think as a chef or a professional caterer or in the food industry unless your working in a vegetarian setting then you do have to give the customer what the customer wants, and if you have the power and abilities to be able to work your ethics in to your establishment then do so in a way thats empowering to all concerned. Ie going for organic and free range , which then puts the prices up for the customer and if your business or area are able to do that and your customers are willing to pay for it. Most customers dont mind paying a bit extra when they know that the food they are buying is just thatextra bit better in quality and treatment from farm to plate.
But if your business or area cant get those extra prices then you have to work with what you have and what you can get at the best price for it.

[shroomgirl]

know your farmers.....visit farms.....seriously.

[shel]

Originally Posted by shroomgirl

know your farmers.....visit farms.....seriously.

That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it ...

Shel

[shroomgirl]

nothing if not succincint. (sp?)

[greyeaglem]

As you can see by my "handle", I'm American Indian. We have a different way of looking at things that I hope I can explain. In our world, everything is the same and has the same value whether it's human, animal, plant or rock. Everything has a soul, one no more important than the other. Animals need to live, we need to live. We recognize the gift of their life as a sacrifice so we can live, and thank their spirit. Accept the gift in the spirit it is given, don't waste anything, and enjoy your steak. Someday the bear may eat you.

[shel]

Originally Posted by greyeaglem

As you can see by my "handle", I'm American Indian. We have a different way of looking at things that I hope I can explain. In our world, everything is the same and has the same value whether it's human, animal, plant or rock. Everything has a soul, one no more important than the other. Animals need to live, we need to live. We recognize the gift of their life as a sacrifice so we can live, and thank their spirit. Accept the gift in the spirit it is given, don't waste anything, and enjoy your steak. Someday the bear may eat you.

I wish more people saw things in that way. Thanks for the post and the reminder ...

I wonder if it may be hard for some people to grasp or embrace the concept since their food comes prepackaged in boxes and wrapped in plastic from supermarkets, and much of the food has been processed so much to be quite far from the source, such as prepackaged hamburger meat that bears no resemblance and little relationship to the cow from which it came, or instant mashed potato flakes loaded with chemicals that don't look or taste much like potatoes.

Shel

[YoungGun]

GreyEagleM has a good point: my general philosophy has been "don't eat what you can't kill" for a while now. It seems that alot of people in here wouldn't have a huge problem slaughtering a cow, pig, horse, etc., and I respect that as long as the animal is not being merely hunted for sport. However, greyeaglem's theory is a little hard to put into effect in the modern world- I doubt that he or many other members of modern society are going out regularly to hunt their meat and using every bit of it as a tribute to it's lost spirit. To follow on shel's thinking, we have definitely become removed from what it is to be humans ourselves, let alone humane. Getting meat ground up in a package from a grocery store that's a 5 minute drive away is hardly paying tribute to the animal, or to ourselves and our abilities as humans (animals) to hunt. I feel like even making the connection to hunt an animal as opposed to haul it onto the kill floor from it's cage/pen is more respectful.

Does anyone know of any chefs/restaurants that exclusively hunt their own meat? Since the organic and on-site farm method is so big nowadays, it seems the next logical step.

[fstfrdy]

This is a dilema that rears its head in our house. I have 2 of my 3 daughters that are semi or over the top vegans. Both have/are working in the "cookin biz". My oldest (has worked with many world class Chef's) based her choice on 2 things health and environmetal concerns. The other because shes a Hippy( she chose more of a managment path to distance herself from the slaughter). both cut meat prep meat and serve meat in their jobs because its part of their job and they love to work in a kitchen. But under our roof they let their feelings be known about the "I dont eat things that had a Mother". The very good points of animal stress and quaility of meat as a result have been discussed endlessly. This has encouraged me to seek out meat from crdible sources where I know that the prossess is humaine. Wise advice from the Shroom once agin.

Cheers fstfrdy