[dudethatsmine]

i scanned a lot of post from diffrent websites beside this and it has come to the conclusion that this industry likes to ***** a lot about there work about the long hours, low recognition tiresome work and low pay but cant that explain almost any job specially blue collar jobs. All the high paying ones are the ones you have to go to school for 6 years for and even then your not makeing that much money out of school yes youll be makeing 60k a year on your first job but thats not that much when you got 120k tuition or more some medical fields are like 300k tuition.

I consider my dad as one of the hardest working men i know he wakes up at 4 in the morning commutes everyday one hour and a half drive comes home 9 at night and does side jobs for extra money and is on call 20 hours a day to come in if they need him you know how much it sucks to come home and then
get called in back to work ive never herd the man ***** once in his life and has been doing it for 33 years do i know why he does it his family.

what i am trying to get at here is i hear all the things that people hate in this industry and how its such hard work but thats almost all jobs theres always something bad about a labor job. I want to start hearing what the pros like about there job in food i mean it cant just be all about so you can brag about how stressfull it is to scare off newbies lol.

I just want to add one more thing in to this post !!WHATS UP WITH THE CULINARY SCHOOLS CHARGING SO MUCH FOR A TRADE THAT PAYS 19k A YEAR STARTING OUT!! is the world really becoming that criminal i mean look at the CIA the poor kids are trying to become cooks and there paying the tuition of a doctor are u fing serious and J&W is no better. Look at all the other trade professions out there they are still apprentice based accept cooking now thanks food network and bobby flay. I wonder what will happen when they make a station called Welding network with celebrity welders Bobby flay, Anthony hypocrit, and Ratchel ray. IRON WELDERS omg mom i wanna be a IRON WELDER now not a IRON CHEF thats so last year WELL OK BOBBY BUT FIRST GET YOUR WELDING BACH degree sorry i am ranting now lol. So anyway tell me what you like about this field what keeps you waking up everyday and doing what you do beside for paying the bills.

and yes i do have a interest taking up cooking as a profession.

[ryanInayr]

Personally speaking, I don't have a vast amount of working in the industry. I've just recently finished school from LCB, and I've been working in the industry for about a year, even doing some volunteer events on the side. Yes, it is a lot of work with very little pay, but at the end of the day, I still want to do it. I just recently got a job at a fine dining restaurant, and I plan on keeping my other job as well.

After all, cooking IS the most self-gratifying job there is.

As far as schools go, braising is braising poaching is poaching no matter where you go; whether it be Cordon Bleu, CIA, J&W or even your local community college. They don't really teach you how to be a chef anyways. They teach you how to be a cook; how to use basic techniques. It is up to you to fine tune those techniques and take them to different levels. The same is with flavor profiles. It is all trial and error.

Personally, I sort of regret going to LCB, because It was an accelerated program, and I felt I got robbed. I wish it was more than 1 year. They also didn't teach me anything I didn't already know from watching T.V. But don't let me discourage you; you might like it.

But yeah, I'm only 19 years old, and I already love what I'm doing, and I can see myself doing this for a very, very long time.

- Ryan

[RAS1187]

Originally Posted by ryanInayr

Personally, I sort of regret going to LCB, because It was an accelerated program, and I felt I got robbed.

My sentiments exactly (from a fellow LCB grad).

From my observation, the people that tend to complain alot are the people that joined culinary school thinking "I'm gonne be the next Emeril, BAM!" They do not want to get their hands dirty, do not want to work late nights and weekends, and definitely do not want to be making 19k/year starting off.

The reason that those of us that have stayed and survived in this industry stress the hard work, long hours, little pay to perspective students is to keep people like that from making a huge mistake and running flat into the wall when they come up to that huge reality check.

[Kali the Foodie]

The industry is rough, no doubt. I just started and I sigh everytime I get in my car to go home and the clock reads 12 or 1, and I know I'll be waking up in 4-5 hours because my fiance needs a ride to work, and we can only afford one car so I have to take him. Then off to my low-tech small culinary school, a place that makes me feel like I should be paid as an instructor because I'm having to correct my half senile teacher half the time.
But the tuition is only 450 dollars a quarter, and ast least I get the oppurtunity to use a professional-ish kitchen and make things I wouldn't normally think to make at home. I get to be in a room full of people that love food and that is what drove me to it in the first place.
As for the restaurant, I am paying my dues. I plan on being a personal chef, where the hours and the money are much better, and I get to be a little more creative. In the meantime, I'm gaining experience and hopefully building a good reputation.
In spite of your apparent disdain for Anthony Bourdain, you should really read Kitchen Confidential. It will give you the perspective that you are looking for. Think what you want of him, but the book will help you decide if you can take the heat in the kitchen industry.

[foodpump]

There are many sides to this industry, all trades are hard and have rough hours. But think of this: You have a plumbing problem, plumber charges $35/hr and a transport fee. Either you put up and shut up or you have a plumbing problem. Same for an electrician, gas fitter, hospital, or finishing carpenter.

With food it's a different story. You don't want to pay $50 for a nice meal, you find a cheaper place, you don't want to pay $10 for a a meal and you find an even cheaper place, don't want to pay $5 for a meal and you go to Safeway and buy ingredients.

We're in North America, cowboys and sheriffs may be long gone but the mentality stilles lives on. Anyone can be a "chef", just need a poofy white hat that's all. Anyone can teach anyone to be a cook, just need a classroom, that's all. Completely different story for plumbers, electricians, doctors, lawyers, etc. These trades and professions are regulated by government and have powerfull unions/associations to protect their reputations and salaries. Neither the U.S. nor Canada will take the "second oldest trade", Cook, seriously. There are no standards or regulations to adhere to. Unions are a joke and only exist to garnishee wages, professional bodies exist to only to offer a multitude of regional standards, and are influeneced by private corporations.

In Europe it's usually a three year apprenticeship for a cook (not Chef, cook, during this time you are an apprentice cook, not apprentice Chef, upon completion of apprenticehip you are a Cook, not Chef), and usually a two year apprenticeship for a waiter/waitress. Yes, that's right. A two year apprenticeship for waiter. Cook and waiter are respected trades, not something to get you through college so you can find a "real job" afterwards, or to keep you fed and sheltered until you're discovered by some movie talent agent....

Salaries and respect for cooking don't come from the employer, they come from the source of money. No, not the bank or some kind of Gov't institution, the money comes from the customer.

Educate the N. American customer and some of the problems will dissapear...

[the_seraphim]

foodpump... i dont know where in europe your going to... but i havent seen a single apprenticeship in my field... ive only been in the field 3 years but still...

oh and i just worked it out.... im on a 19k salary!!!! that takes the biscuit (thats 19k dollars, its 10400 in my own great british pounds...) but when my son is born in april i get about £500 a month from the government because i work and am on a low wage...

when i get better, get an exec chef/ head chef position (and i will get there i dont care how long it takes...) ill have apprenticeship positions... try and help some other cooks move into and up the ladder...

but until then, i have to settle for my low wage, horrid hours, hard work, hot environment with no respect from anyone except my peers and the few truly grateful customers who make a point to say thanks.


btw... 1200 covers on sunday night,£10($20) - £15($30) a head on average before drinks/desserts and we took £30 tips... total, at least thats what the waitresses/waiters admit to... kitchen gets 10% (i think it should be closer to 50% but thats just me)

people in my town just arent grateful.

[24-7cook]

I left the white collar life of a stock broker for the life of a chef. When I am interviewing a potential apprentice chef I inform them of the low pay, long hours, rampant drug abuse and alcoholism and high divorce rate. In fact I do everything in my power to talk them out of wanting to become a chef. I tell them of the stress, the physical and mental fatigue of 80-90 hour work weeks. I will not lie to you there are days when I think to myself why in the world did I ever open Pandora's box. I have never had one ounce of regret
The kitchen is a lover who's touch will forever haunt me. The thirst that will never be quenched. My first thought every morning is food and it is my last at night.

[Kali the Foodie]

I totally agree with you 24/7. I am not yet a chef, but I cannot resist the siren no matter how much I hear about or have to endure the hardships. All I can think about is how good food is and how I can make it better.

[Montelago]

We're not b***hing. Talking about your hardships with people who understand is cathartic. It builds a sense of community and comraderie. Sometimes talking to the wife is not enough, because she just doesn't fully grasp the job. Talking to folks who sweat it out every night along with you just offers a little relief, mentally and spiritually. I would say to a man, (or woman) on this website, we all really love what we do and wouldn't trade it if we could. Some of us have tried, and came back anyway. I would never be in another business. I love the stress, the adrenaline, the friendships, the creativity, the appreciation of happy guests.

[chefbrianb]

24-7 and Montelago pretty much hit it. People ***** about work to destress and connect with others in similar situations. Drew Carey had a funny bit about it. When talking to a friend who was complaining about his job he said (roughly) Oh yeah, you hate your job...I think there's a support group for that it's called EVERYBODY! They hold daily meetings at 5:00 at this placed call THE BAR. None the less most chef's love, eat, breathe, sleep, and completely obsess about food. (The better one's anyway.) And yes it can be brutally hard work. I have told many a cook that if they are not in love/obsessed with food I feel sorry for them because their job must really suck. That they should probably try and find a different one! Being a chef isn't something you are taught it's something you are and if you need someone to explain why it's a good thing despite all the bitching maybe you don't get it.

[chefbrianb]

One last quick comment about the cost of culinary school. Some of the best cooks/chefs I've met/worked with came from community college programs or never even went to culinary school. Worked with and fired enough mediocre CIA and J&W grads to realize that it's the individual and their experience that counts not the school they went to. Personally the route that worked best for me was no school, buy every decent cook book I could afford, buy ingredients, spend all available free time reading/cooking, and work with the best chefs I could. Total school cost: zero. You don't need pricey "Ivy League" cooking school to succeed. Just my 2 cents.

[jbd]

Originally Posted by dudethatsmine

I just want to add one more thing in to this post !!WHATS UP WITH THE CULINARY SCHOOLS CHARGING SO MUCH FOR A TRADE THAT PAYS 19k A YEAR STARTING OUT!!

Have you ever considered what the costs are to teach/educate the students? Things like food/ingredients. Equipment purchases and maintainance. Employee salaries and benefits. Facility costs and maintainance. Marketing expenses. Utilities. Insurance. The list goes on and on.

[Kali the Foodie]

Originally Posted by jbd

Have you ever considered what the costs are to teach/educate the students? Things like food/ingredients. Equipment purchases and maintainance. Employee salaries and benefits. Facility costs and maintainance. Marketing expenses. Utilities. Insurance. The list goes on and on.

If it's so expensive to educate, than why can't we go back to the whole apprenticeship idea. I'm pretty sure everyone says it's the individual that makes the chef, not the school. What's the point then, really?

[dudethatsmine]

just a update i guess about me i am really considering the navy route going through the ACF program in the navy sounds really good to me and a lot of hard work but thats what i want to be put through. Any comments about this idea would be nice. And i do think having military experience on a resume is looked at very nicely rite?.

thanks for your 2cents chefbrian

[chefbrianb]

Dude/Kali I think I can respond to both in tandem. Apprentice system is fully alive and well, if not formally called so. Finding a job in the best kitchen you can to learn is the essence of apprentice. While we have no formal system for it the essence is still there. Starting out you make next to no money (because no offense you don't have much technically to offer) and in exchange for your hard work you gain knowledge more so than money. As you gain skills and knowledge you also get more financial reward. Then you have the option to move on and learn from others or stay put with a chef you believe in until "the student becomes the master". The military is another path to go down in the same apprentice type arena. Certainly one would be answering to authorities to guide and teach them. Same scenario different situation. And yes, if I see military on a resume I assume the applicant has some discipline and respect for authority and I am more likely to hire them.