[chef.ESG.73]

The word Seraphim means: an angel of the highest order.( just saying )

As I stated before. I have no problem with people swearing, just not at one another..

I don't need to talk down to people to make myself feel important!
Sorry to hear that it is acceptable to you, seraphim.

[oldschool1982]

Originally Posted by Jim

Interesting opinions, thus far. I bring this up because I am rather torn.

On one hand, yes, the kitchen can be a cut-throat, down 'n dirty, swearin' flurry of irreverant acitvity, all for the sake of 'passionate cooking.' On the other hand, in the name of moving the industry to a more professional level, that type of behavior is not acceptable. Do I accept the flagrant use of profanity swirled with contemptuous insults or do I make the environment that much more ripe with more G-rated conduct?

Precisely why I have been unable to formulate a reply until now.

The kitchen by nature is a rough place otherwise we never would have needed the phrase....."Can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". What someone deems as foul/unacceptable another might not. For me it about time and place. It also reaches the point of foul/unacceptable when it moves from stressing urgency, making a point, release of tension, etc to becoming personal or abusive toward co-workers and/or subordinates. Cussing only becomes truly unprofessional when it's no-longer directed at the action or situation and is directed at the individual person.

In it's true form cuss words are words that convey a certain punctuation like no other can. When someone has just messed up a 400.00 batch of sauce (that's production cost not sales loss) or the kitchen is throwing plates of schwag into the window......
I mean compared to Oh you guy's! Sassafras, sassafras, sassafras. Gee golly wiz! What's gonna get more attention and deliver better results plus make you feel a whole he11 of a lot better in the moment.

With all that said I have a couples rules of thought so........ for what it's worth and IMHPO an open kitchen means a closed mouth since it is never appropriate in-front of or within an earshot of the guest. While language in and of itself is not unprofessional, how it is applied can be and that's where I try to draw the line. But I have to say....being the type of business we have chosen sure stretches the limits of self control at times.

As far as Harassment, I think we've become waaaayyyyyy to sensitive a culture almost to the point of being a culture of "whiners". With that said true harassment has no place in any setting. Yet because of heightened sensitivity I say fun is fun. The trouble is setting the bar where it actually moves from fun to harassment. But when it moves from that point, usually when the person placed in the spotlight has objected to it and/or when it impairs everyones ability to complete the job at hand that's when I take objection to it continuing.

[chef.ESG.73]

Oldschool your like the Zen/Budda Master of this forum, you always have a great way to get your point across.

I learned my lesson at an early age.
I was Head Chef at 18 years old ( huge ego) Things were going wrong, I took one of the plates a line cook put in the window and threw it across the kitchen an SCREAMED at everyone. Well all at once the three line cooks walked out on a Thursday. I had to have the owner and dining room manager come cook on the line. The owner had me call the cooks and aolagize and ask them to come back ( my ego was not happy with this ). Two days later I got fired. I had to learn how to treat people the hard way. Granted I know I was right for removing the plate out of the window, I just go about it differently now.

I agree you have to be thick skinned in the kitchen. The language and actions were the attraction for me when I first started, loved it and still do. I just think we work in the hardest industry and we work extreamely hard. for me now if it gets to the point were I feel I have to scream at someone I bring them in the office to have a sit down and if nothing changes send them home for good.

[Tri2Cook]

Originally Posted by chef.ESG.73

for me now if it gets to the point were I feel I have to scream at someone I bring them in the office to have a sit down and if nothing changes send them home for good.

That's where the problem comes in. Once you've hired someone, you have to be extremely careful about how you get rid of them if you don't want it to come back and bite you on the butt. However, if you can make this useless, non-working waste of space miserable enought ot quit (without violating any rules/laws) they solve the problem for you.

[chef.ESG.73]

or make budget cuts and offer them a position deep out of state..I've seen that done a few times..

[oldschool1982]

Thanks chef ESG.

I have one last opinion to offer. Sensitivity to me was at one time the foot notes that you put on a recipe giving the person who produces it a point of reference to the taste, texture, look, feel, etc of a product once made. It definitely was never what it has become. I think it's almost purely the fault of the HR department (AKA Huge Roid). The creation of this form of management and the policies that spew forth from them in their self-righteous and self serving way is why things have become so "touchy feely" in regards to sensitivity. I mean compassion and common sense are probably the key to it but there never seems to be any of the latter and too much of the prior handcuffing Management and preventing the whole practice of discipline, responsibility and consequences in the work place all the while seeming to reward and protect the useless. (My favorite nickname for these folks was "Ulysses")

It's great if the person has "potential" but... My Gawd!!!!!!!!! Some of these folks are definitely candidates for ..........

[Just Jim]

I believe in treating everyone with respect.
I will make the effort to correct a situation calmly, and a couple of times.
Depending on the response I get, I may choose a different tactic.
I am not above walking up to a problem employee with a smile on my face, and telling them to follow me, and head to the walk-in.
I swear, sometimes it looks like they think I'm going to give them candy.
Once in the walk-in, I turn around and yell "what the (expletive deleted) is your problem?"
This usually has the desired effect.
Of course, you have to have a pretty good idea that it will work, based on your knowledge of the particular employee.

Swearing in general isn't a problem.
When I refer to something as the %$#@! sauce and get a questioning look, I tell them that it's an industry term.
But like mentioned above, swearing near someone, and swearing at someone, are completely different things.

[chef.ESG.73]

Ya, years ago you could just say beat it, screw go home your fired..Now a days the whole 3 write up plus verbal warning ( are you kidn me ) fax the paper work to HR and get their aproaval is crazy now. By the time all that paper work is done, the staff member figures out what your doing and just happens to slip on the floor, and claims he's hurt.