[Headless Chicken]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus

IMO, if you can't take a ten minute break in a twelve hour day, you're doing a crappy job of managing your time. This is 2009- the macho stuff doesn't apply. No matter how much of a stud you think you are, you're subject to the same physiology that everyone else is.

Then let me ask this based on this statement.
Its common, to my ears at least, that many kitchen workers are doing jobs normally done by 2 or more people. Then how do you make time to take a break doing the job of 2 people in a single shift?

I'm finding this true more so now then ever. I know that restaurants of most caliber don't make much money per meal so managers, owners, and the like push to squeeze as much work out of each person as possible to pocket as much nickles and dime as possible.

[ChefBillyB]

The front line cooks that complain about breaks are probability complaining about everything else in the kitchen. You take your breaks when you can, you smoke when you can, you eat when you can. I have been in this business 30 years and the Cooks that know the knowhow are the ones that do well. The Cooks that worry about breaks and usually scratching their heads in the unemployment line sooner than later.
I'm not saying people don't deserve breaks, but in the Restaurant business only the strong survive.....................Bill

[chefhow]

Originally Posted by ChefBillyB

I'm not saying people don't deserve breaks, but in the Restaurant business only the strong survive.....................Bill

I dont think that anything said better descibes everything that has been said like this one sentence. Ive had the guys that NEED the break every few hours and the guy that works like a machine and let me tell you, the machine will always get ahead while the others are left standing still in their dust. It doesnt matter what year it is and what state you work in, somethings will never change and that is one of them. When I did smoke I learned how to put down a cig in 3 drags and then back at it in less than 2 minutes. When I owned my own place my rule was that if I was out smokin than you could be that was it, but if your station wasnt set and you walked off line to take a break EVERYONE paid and EVERYONE suffered and that included me as an owner. Nobody wants to be "that guy"...

[rat]

Man you super macho guys just floor me, take a break for chrissake. That I have to work 20 hours a day every day is what keeps the kitchen in the stone age.

Wake up, people need breaks why are you not taking one for to make your boss money? It is just stupid not to. How can you say you are ready unless you have some time to get your head and your @#$% together before a busy night or after one.

Only the strong survive? what is this? Only the stupid keep doing it for years you mean.
As a chef it is your responsibility both legally and ethically to see your staff has something to eat everyday and time to eat it as well as poo and pee. Believe it or not it is true people will work harder if they feel you really give a crap about them.

If you slack you slack, breaks or not, I think most cooks cannot manage their time correctly so are constantly pressed for time. Work smart, work efficiently. Everyday I see the line go down in flames for not being prepared. Most people forget the rules of setup, timing and hustle.

Pat, seriously now your 4+ years of experience is overwhelming. Working doubles everyday does nothing for you except make your boss money because you have some twisted sense of machismo ("what are those breaks you speak of"). After 25 years in, I see the people who never take their breaks burn out and fade away. You need time maybe after another massive 4 years of experience you may realize that.

I am not sorry for the rant as this is where i would put my usual disclaimer, to advance this industry you have to stop all this super tough guy crap. The only one who cares if you worked 16 hours without any rest is your boss who will be laughing all the way to the bank. Even slaves got a break now and then. Boo hoo to all the people who would flame me here but than like I stated I've been there and done that, I'm better than most at what I do and it just kills me to see the restaurant industry is the only that hasn't advanced in the last 20+ years in terms of pay and hours. Get out of the stone age.

[rat]

On a side note I do not condone taking a break when it is balls to the wall full tilt service, that was not my initial intent. I advocate taking one when it is practical and the station it ready to rock.

[Schuster]

As an additional question, for those who are paid hourly, do you still get paid for your breaks? Even if I'm working a double, I'm required to clock out if I want to grab a quick bite to eat or run out for a quick smoke. It seems ridiculous as I definitely work harder and faster overall when I can get 3 minutes to myself every few hours to sit down, think about what I have to accomplish in the next few hours, and just generally rest for a quick minute. It seems all too many restaurant owners, at least the ones I've worked for, view their employees as disposable and easily replaceable regardless of how good they are at their job. The 10 minutes I'm out smoking on a 12+ hour day is 10 minutes of their money wasted and they feel they could find someone else who won't waste it.

Rat,

Even though I agree with a lot of what you're saying, a lot of my peers can deal with working 16 hour shifts with no break. If I stand up and say I need a break, the owner will simply find someone who won't. Does the owner really care if a cook burns out of the industry in five years? Of course not, he cares about squeezing the most productivity out of his already underpaid cooks. Philosophy is one thing, but I don't see any real way to change things.

[Phaedrus]

Originally Posted by Headless Chicken

Then let me ask this based on this statement.
Its common, to my ears at least, that many kitchen workers are doing jobs normally done by 2 or more people. Then how do you make time to take a break doing the job of 2 people in a single shift?

I'm finding this true more so now then ever. I know that restaurants of most caliber don't make much money per meal so managers, owners, and the like push to squeeze as much work out of each person as possible to pocket as much nickles and dime as possible.

I guess I don't know how to answer that. If the management isn't capable of making money while staffing within the guidelines of Federal labor law then they simply aren't doing a very good job. Yeah, the economy is tough but that's not a legitimate reason to treat people in that manner. This isn't 1800's America where you can sit a 10 year old in front of sewing machine for 16 hours and lock the doors, nor a Malaysian sweatshop.

Are you really telling me that giving that overworked guy a ten is gonna put your restaurant out of business? If that's the case the place doesn't deserve to survive at all.

I'm 40, and I'll concede that generally only take a single break of maybe 5 minutes. But as a younger guy I didn't even need that. If I was working 12+ again, though, I'd take a break for a quick bite.

[even stephen]

I was going to leave this one alone, but,.......one factor to consider.....after about 10 hours working hard.....virtually any line cook or chef's productivity and level of focus will start to suffer greatly. A sixteen hour day(7am until 11pm), just ain't practical. For smooth seemless service from the kitchen, you can't have a zombie on the line......10 hours OK....anymore is counterproductive. It goes like this....health, family, work....never forget it or you'll never be able to hang on to any of them....let me tell you....

[ChefBillyB]

Originally Posted by rat

On a side note I do not condone taking a break when it is balls to the wall full tilt service, that was not my initial intent. I advocate taking one when it is practical and the station it ready to rock.

Hey Chef, I don't know about your kitchen but, The cooks that can manage their time and station are the ones that get their breaks. Happy to see your side note gets back to reality. Every Kitchen I have worked in took me time to learn the fastest ways of doing everything. Every Chef in here will say, get your station ready and take your breaks. No breaks during the balls out rush. I'm happy to see you agree with everyone else after your rant.
Every line cook that is worth his weight is always first in line for promotion. I don't think you got to be a Chef while sitting in the employee lounge......Bill

[Blueicus]

Honestly, a person, no matter how tough they are or how much stamina they have will hit the wall of diminishing returns when the work a long sustained period. The mistakes you start making will take more time to fix than the measly ten minutes you take to sit down and have a coffee or a drag over the long term when you do the long hours. Of course it's still important to figure out when to take a break and not do it when it's during service or when your day is especially busy.

[Just Jim]

I don't get why a couple have chosen to liken this behavior to "machismo", when no one has come across in that manner, and especially when considering that this isn't a solely male occupation.

[foodpump]

This is getting wierd now.

One of the best run kitchens I ever worked in, was run by a Swiss chef who probably had a Rolex inbedded in his body. Start work at 8:30, at 11 everyone went for lunch--he'd ride your butt if you didn't. At 2:00 it was end of shift--split shift system, then the evening shift. No one worked more than 4 hrs full tilt. He worked you hard and rode your butt, but the end of every evening he bought a round of beers for you to drink while you cleaned up.

It's my opinion that if the Chef takes a break, the staff will follow. If the kitchen is not running like a rolex however, this can be difficult for the Chef to do.

Many places in N. America do not have communal staff meals, or do not supply staff meals. Meal times are an ideal break opportunity.

[Sleepy_Dragon]

Originally Posted by Just Jim

I don't get why a couple have chosen to liken this behavior to "machismo", when no one has come across in that manner, and especially when considering that this isn't a solely male occupation.

Yes, quite. (For the record, I'm a woman. And a now 37 year old career changer at that, albeit from a family who's always cooked professionally since three generations back. One grandfather in particular came up through the French brigade system in France to become a chef, so I'm hardly unfamiliar with the realities here.)

The kitchen I work in is a highly creative kitchen where the cooks enjoy a great degree of autonomy in terms of menu development, as long as we stay within the overall cuisine itself. I go into work excited about my day, every single day, because of all the ridiculously cool stuff we get to do. On our off days? Sometimes we come in anyway because there's some other idea we want to pursue, or some other skill we want to acquire.

It's hardly the slave labor situation people make it out to be, especially in light of our benefits, which mirror those enjoyed by the average civilian. We're one of the few (only?) kitchens where our owners provide 100% paid health insurance, as well as vacation and paid holidays, a much more equitable division of tips, plus other perks.

For myself, I've worked in places where I punched in and out for my hourly shifts for my 40 hours a week. While I don't regret anything I learned in those other kitchens, my current kitchen is the one where I've been happiest and most mentally engaged.

I'll ignore the ridiculous saber-rattling in this thread, and address the whole life-balance/burnout thing instead: when I was a clock-puncher, I sought out stages elsewhere all the time, just to keep learning, not get bored, and to learn faster. A few of us still do this on top of our 65+ hours a week, because food interests us, and we like it that way. Frankly, I wouldn't get to do all that we get to do in a place where all the cooks are on hourly, without seeking it out elsewhere anyway.

It's not for everybody, but it works well in this particular environment for these particular individuals. I'm more than content with my hands-on education, as well as the recognition we all enjoy for what we produce.

Yeah, I could go elsewhere where I only work 40 hours for x amount of dollars per hour, but I don't want to. This is way more interesting.

Pat

[fstfrdy]

I am not saying you are, but if break time is more important than your station then you are in the wroung line of work. Customers and food have no respect for your needs, they each have their own time lines. as has been said you get the feel for when you can have one and when not to. To me a break is not an entitlement (no matter what the law is) It is an opportunity to restore focus for the rest of the shift and its up to meto get it timed rite.

[PeteMcCracken]

IMHO, a "break" is an opportunity to "relax and refresh" WHEN THERE IS NOTHING THAT HAS TO BE DONE NOW!

Every "job" has "time critical" and "non time critical" activities that must be accomplished. "Breaks" should be taken ONLY when "non time critical activities" are being worked on OR when someone else is available to accomplish the "time critical activities".

Firemen get breaks, BUT ONLY WHEN THERE IS NO FIRE BEING FOUGHT!

The equivalent for "line cooks" is "service time", your station MUST be manned when customers are waiting!

(BTW, the references to "man", "men", "manned", or any other term that might be misconstrued as "gender specific" is NOT meant to be gender specific!)

Smoke. pee, relax, what ever, BEFORE or AFTER service, but don't expect a break during service UNLESS there is someone available to cover your responsibilities.