[chefhow]

Sous Vide, french for under vacuum, is done at temps so low that there is no steam, (steam is oxygen). Once there is steam the vaccum is lost and the product is ruined. Pullling a vacuum is the opposite of creating pressure, when you pull or remove all the air out of the bag for sous vide you are creating, in theory an air tight enviroment, when you create pressure you are adding oxygen under steam to create circulating pressure within the vessel and therefore you have a constantly moist environment inwhich to cook your product.

In sous vide you shouldnt cook anything at over 140F, for it to properly cook and maintain its natural integrity. Thats why it was created, so you could cook extremly high fat items without loss or shrink.

As for dry air, the air in your oven is dry and its is there for circulating dry air, I wasnt clear on that point.

[welldonechef]

Originally Posted by chefhow

Sous Vide, french for under vacuum, is done at temps so low that there is no steam, (steam is oxygen). Once there is steam the vaccum is lost and the product is ruined. Pullling a vacuum is the opposite of creating pressure, when you pull or remove all the air out of the bag for sous vide you are creating, in theory an air tight enviroment, when you create pressure you are adding oxygen under steam to create circulating pressure within the vessel and therefore you have a constantly moist environment inwhich to cook your product.

In sous vide you shouldnt cook anything at over 140F, for it to properly cook and maintain its natural integrity. Thats why it was created, so you could cook extremly high fat items without loss or shrink.

As for dry air, the air in your oven is dry and its is there for circulating dry air, I wasnt clear on that point.

Well, not meaning to derail a thread here.

The OP question is about how to cook beef ribs, so I am of the opinion, "low and slow"

[ED BUCHANAN]

"In sous vide you shouldnt cook anything at over 140F, for it to properly cook and maintain its natural integrity. Thats why it was created, so you could cook extremly high fat items without loss or shrink." Chefhow

Chef you are 100% correct in the 140 F statement anything over that in sous-vide language denatures the protein. The low temp is one of the factors that when you order a rare steak or med rare in sous vide the whole thing is rare or med rare not just the center. This freaks out a lot of people but thats sous vide.

[iconoclast]

from my own experience, braising at higher temps seems to breakdown the outter portion of the meat while still leaving the center rather tough (compared to the outter portion), slow and low for long period of time... imo. however his recipes maybe switched up or tweaked for home cooks who may not have the time, patience or energy to do the proper methods.

[mike8913]

there's alot of bad information being posted about both braising and sous vide right now. I think we should hammer out proper braising methods and then start a new thread dedicated to sous vide.

Braising:

combination method of dry and moist heat. Meat is typically seared ahead of braising. Protein, typically beef, chicken, or pork; is partially submerged up to 9/10 of its mass. As opposed to roasting, which benefits from "low and slow" ideology, braising does not require temperatures lower than 350 ( lower will simply take longer and that is all). When protein is taken above 120F muscle fibers start their denaturing process by tightening cell walls and collagen begins to break down at around 131F (depending on the protein)

Liquid, because it is heavier than air, naturally puts pressure on anything submerged in it. The now evacuated tissues of protein, caused by heating, are forcibly basted by the natural pressures of a liquid environment; therefore reconstituting the strained muscle fibers. Collagen continues to break down at simmering temperatures and beyond, but the effects of liquid submersion are retarded when the liquid changes phase causing the once moist environment surrounding the tissue into high temperature gas environments where high temperatures cause meat to constrict itself dry, similar to squeezing a wet sponge.

It's important to note that braised items are not cooked to temperature, but instead cooked to a desired tenderness. While some cooks will claim a braised item is easy to catch when done, the texture of an overcooked braise is decidedly stringy, reminiscent of microwave ramen noodles. A proper texture of a braise should be reached when fork or finger tender but still maintain, albeit small, shear force in the mouth.

[iconoclast]

when braising large pieces of beef i typically start out at 350, then about an hour into it drop down to 275 and continue braising at 275 for the remainder (also about the time when i drop in the veg and pull out the bouquet garni). i found that when i braise at 350-375 for the entire process the outside becomes 'stringy' yet the inner portion is still firm. when i braise at 275 i get an even texture all around and all the way through. YMMV.

[R HIll]

Originally Posted by welldonechef

You are speaking of beef ribs, right? I cannot picture how good those ribs would be coming out of the oven at 375...

I like to caramelize them, then lower the temp to almost 200 and cook over 5 to 6 hours or more. I find the depth of flavor improves over time.

Now that's what Im talking about low and slow