[iconoclast]

i was trying to research this topic online last night, but seems all the results just go in circles... i would like to know how many top chefs, or which high-end restaurants use msg.

[chefhow]

You may not find too many in the US, mostly in China, Japan and parts of the UK. We have caused such a negative image of it in the US that ppl automatically run in the other direction when they hear it even mentioned in food. The only places you will find it used regularly in the US is in snack manufacturing and commercial sauce making.

[DuckFat]

The results go in circles because there is a lot of miss-information. AFAIK no one is clinically "allergic" to MSG. At least according to the physicians I have asked about this. Some may have a reaction to MSG such as getting flush etc. However a reaction and an "allergy" are not the same thing. I'm not sure an allergy test for MSG even exists. Your body produces MSG so if you were "allergic" to MSG you would be in deep kim chee.
A food allergy is an abnormal response to food from the immune system. The immune system is not responsible for the symptoms of a food intolerance, allthough the symptoms may resemble those of a food allergy. Less than 1% of the population has a food allergy.
There are those on medications and who have other clinical allergies that do need to be careful about consuming foods that can result in a reaction for them.
A food reaction, like gas can give you enough discomfort and pain to land you in the ER, however it's not going to have the same potential health consequences as an allergic reaction.


"It is ILLEGAL and against FDA and USDA regulations to falsely label ANY food items for exactly what they are"

That in and of itself may be true but there can be some slick marketing. Like meats labled "nitrate free". Read the label again and check for celery juice or powder.
I don't know about all hydrolyzed vegetable protein but hydrolyzed soy protein is far worse than MSG. It can be made with sulfuric acid or genetically altered soy and has carcinogenic properties. You would probably have to consume mass quantities for that to be an issue but a lot of this frankenfood is in many products that we consume.
Both MSG and nitrates are naturally occurring chemicals that get way too much press compared the genetically altered ingredients in many products.

[iconoclast]

msg is like steroids for food... or any 'performance enhancing' drug...

[chefhow]

Originally Posted by DuckFat

"It is ILLEGAL and against FDA and USDA regulations to falsely label ANY food items for exactly what they are"

That in and of itself may be true but there can be some slick marketing. Like meats labled "nitrate free". Read the label again and check for celery juice or powder.
I don't know about all hydrolyzed vegetable protein but hydrolyzed soy protein is far worse than MSG. It can be made with sulfuric acid or genetically altered soy and has carcinogenic properties. You would probably have to consume mass quantities for that to be an issue but a lot of this frankenfood is in many products that we consume.
Both MSG and nitrates are naturally occurring chemicals that get way too much press compared the genetically altered ingredients in many products.

Nitrates are totally different and arent added to food, they are a biproduct of the smoking and curing process.

The point I was telling the OP was that HVP's are not MSG, are not MSG replacers and arent advertised as such.

HVP's come in many different forms, from Corn Gluten, Wheat Gluten, Soy Protien ect. They are all chemically stripped and "hydrolyzed" to mimic other flavors. I dont condone using them, but when Vegans and Vegetarians want meat flavors(if you want a meat flavor just eat meat) that is a vegan way to get them and as of today the FDA and USDA still lets manufacturers call them "Natural".

I personally would rather use MSG, and I keep it at my home, but in the US the mass majority is afraid. Wait about 3 months and you will see that the potato chip market is going to take a HUGE hit with the release of the Achrylamide Study and its carcenogenic properties speaking of carcenogens. The FDA is going to put you into a mass panic and have everyone throwing away their potato chips because they are going to tell you that they will give you cancer. What they arent going to tell you is that the levels of achrylamide in chips is the same as it is in a loaf of bread. Are you going to stop buying bread now?

We could pick apart everything that is manufactured in a plant and find something wrong with it, but what it boils down to is most things are OK for you in moderation. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but that is true in all things. Good example, I quit smoking 2 years ago, emptied all the sweets and snacks out of the house before I did this and replaced them with carrots, celery and fruits and still managed to put on 35 lbs. I ate healthier at that point in my life than I ever had as an adult, but I over did it with fruits and veggies that were high in natural non reducing sugars, and carbs. Good for you but too much is too much.

Iconoclast, MSG is a naturally occuring product, it is no more a "performance enhancer" than salt is. PPL need to stop thinking its a chemical that is man made.

[DuckFat]

Originally Posted by chefhow

Nitrates are totally different and arent added to food, they are a biproduct of the smoking and curing process.

I hope no one is confusing nitrates and MSG. Celery and other vegetables can contain Nitrates. Celery juice and powder is often added to to skip around the FDA rules so they can advertise nitrate and nitrite free or "all Natural". Your body converts nitrates (Beets, lettuce, greens) to nitrites. Veggies can also give infants nitrite poisoning in some cases (google infant- spinach- nitrate). In either event the bit about false labeling and the USDA is subject to interpretation (IMO) and that was my only point. The example being the natural occurring nitrates in celery that is used in "nitrate free" food. There is a LOT of manipulation in mass produced food and marketing. I have much bigger things to worry about other than nitrates or MSG. I think most of us do.
BTW the Acrylamide yest is already out.

Survey Data on Acrylamide in Food: Individual Food Products

[chefhow]

DuckFat, The acrylamide info you grabbed is the initial research. They are about to release the findings of the actual 5 year study done by the FDA, USDA and the initial Swedes that found it and how it effects ppl directly thru normal eating habits, not lab rats. This is going to rock the food world, I just came back from a conference and series of classes and this was one of the topics we discussed at length. The snack food and baking industries are currently on "red alert" waiting patiently to see the final report. If they release that acrylamide is thought to be a very highly carenogenic substance with direct correlation to several types of cancer the food industry in general is going to be in for a major shake up. We should know something before the end of the year.

[DuckFat]

Thanks for the heads up! I will watch out for that.

[treehugger057]

awesome amount of info!chefhow thanks for the detailed reply! I must admit most of the research I was looking at for the effects of msg have been lab rat test! So I am anxiously awaiting the new study! Also thanks for the clear up of hvp!

As a parent I would prefer my children not to eat this! As a chef I would prefer not to cheat my patrons. I want the method of preperation and the quality of the food to reflect my dedication to the food they are eating! Just my humble opinion!

I really just wanted to see how others felt!

p.s. thanks for all the great post

tyler

[iconoclast]

Umami - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[CStanford]

Monosodium glutamate is one of several forms of glutamic acid found in foods, in large part because glutamic acid is pervasive in nature, being an amino acid. Glutamic acid and its salts can also be present in a wide variety of other additives, including hydrolyzed vegetable proteins, autolyzed yeast, hydrolyzed yeast, yeast extract, soy extracts, and protein isolate, any one of which may appear as "spices" or "natural flavorings." The food additives disodium inosinate and disodium guanylate are usually used along with monosodium glutamate-containing ingredients, and provide a likely indicator of the presence of monosodium glutamate in a product. For this reason, the FDA considers labels such as "No MSG" or "No Added MSG" to be misleading if the food contains ingredients that are sources of free glutamate, such as hydrolyzed protein.
In 1993, the FDA proposed adding the phrase "(contains glutamate)" to the common or usual names of certain protein hydrolysates that contain substantial amounts of glutamate.
In the 2004 version of his book, On Food and Cooking, food scientist Harold McGee states that "[after many studies], toxicologists have concluded that MSG is a harmless ingredient for most people, even in large amounts."

[chefhow]

Originally Posted by CStanford

Monosodium glutamate is one of several forms of glutamic acid found in foods, in large part because glutamic acid is pervasive in nature, being an amino acid. Glutamic acid and its salts can also be present in a wide variety of other additives, including hydrolyzed vegetable proteins, autolyzed yeast, hydrolyzed yeast, yeast extract, soy extracts, and protein isolate, any one of which may appear as "spices" or "natural flavorings." The food additives disodium inosinate and disodium guanylate are usually used along with monosodium glutamate-containing ingredients, and provide a likely indicator of the presence of monosodium glutamate in a product. For this reason, the FDA considers labels such as "No MSG" or "No Added MSG" to be misleading if the food contains ingredients that are sources of free glutamate, such as hydrolyzed protein.
In 1993, the FDA proposed adding the phrase "(contains glutamate)" to the common or usual names of certain protein hydrolysates that contain substantial amounts of glutamate.
In the 2004 version of his book, On Food and Cooking, food scientist Harold McGee states that "[after many studies], toxicologists have concluded that MSG is a harmless ingredient for most people, even in large amounts."

CStanford, you cant label HVP, TVP, AYE, Torula Yeast, Brewers Yeast or Soy Protien Isolates as anything but what they are, and they definitely can not be labeled as spices or natural flavors. All of the above mentioned must be labeled according to label identity laws fromm either 05 or 06 which is when the great natural debates began. Mertaise or disodium inosinate and disodium guanylate often are labeled with MSG but are also used with sea salt to help and mimic the flavor and function of MSG. Mertaise is also being used less and less because of its label declarations.

HVP's usually use a combination of Soy protien, corn gluten and wheat gluten with salt to mimic and replace meat flavors in meat analogs, they all must be broken out on the labels.

[ED BUCHANAN]

Most experiments back in the 60s were done with MSG given in what they thought was a simple form. Cold and mixed in soda. This is how most testing was done. In the beginning what was never thought of was the high heat of wok cooking that MSG would be subject to. To this day it has never really been established. For more info there is a monosodium glut. association located somewhere in Georgia

[Chef Tomain]

MSG is pure poison for the body. It causes may health problems. Check out the research of Dr. Blaylock.In small doses it is not harmful but most food manufactures put msg in their food as an additive ingredient that stimulates a person appetite causing them to eat more because it keeps the hunger switch on past the point of satiation. Most restaurant use it in their food because of this.If a person were to add up the amount of MSG they consume in a day the amount a staggering. Today some consumers will not buy products with msg so the food companies have resorted to hiding it under different names. I have personal restricted MSG from my diet and have see a significant weight loss and my appetite has decreased.Scientist use MSG as a means to fatten rats that don't normally get fat. by injecting MSG into them at birth so they can study diabetes. Here is a partial list of symptoms: MSG causes Headaches, migraines, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, irritable bowel syndrome, upset stomach, asthmatic attacks, skin rashes, heart palpitations,anxiety or panic attacks, shortness of breath, balance problems, heart attack like symptoms, allergy type symptoms, flushing, mood swings, behavioral disorders (especially in children and teens) mental confusion, runny nose, bags under the eyes, urinary and prostate problems, partial paralysis, mouth lesions and depression. In addition, there is some medical research linking MSG to Alzheimer's Disease, ALS (Lou Gehrig's), and Parkinson's.

[greyeaglem]

Now I know what's wrong with me!! Here I just thought it was my job. Very interesting thread. It reminds me though of a time back in the '80s when Harvard and Yale both released results for studies they'd done on the relashionship of coffee and cancer. One said coffee caused cancer, one said it prevented it. Also, they told us butter was bad for us because of cholesterol. We should all eat margarine (trans fats anyone?). What happened? As a nation, our cholesterol went up, not down. I am very skeptical of any findings that are not iron-clad (which would be all of them) and the food police make me nervous. They get everybody in a panic over some half-baked idea, tell you what you should eat and then tell you 30 years later it's bad for you. Last time I checked, I'm not a rat (at least not physically) and how something affects rats may not be anything like how it would affect a human. Things that don't bother us can be deadly for dogs, for instance, and vice-versa. Can you imagine what the food police would do about chocolate if they'd tested it on dogs? Please, just label things and let people make up your own minds. Let's stop with banning everything. I often think of my garandmother. She grew up eating lard (cholesterol) and then used Crisco for baking in her last 45 0r 50 years (trans fats) because she liked the flavor better. She lived to be 97.