Need advice on Red seal exam

CJL_2006 · #1 09-24-2009, 05:11 PM

Alright so I recently finished my 6000 hours for my apprenticeship back in august and i booked my red seal exam straight away.

I took the test a few days ago and i failed by 1 mark.... 1% Personally i found the test very obscure and vague.

A few examples below

What is the proper brewing temperature of coffee? According to professional cooking 5th edition it is 90-93C. This temperature range was not on the exam at all as one of the choices.

How long should a whole chicken be rested after roasting and coming out of the oven? I may be wrong but doesn't the size of the product partially determine the time needed for resting?

What is the proper procedure to skin an eel? I was unable to find any kind of a procedure for skinning an eel in my college book or online. Maybe it's because I've only worked at three different restaurants during the course of my apprenticeships but that question seems very tricky.

Is it possible to appeal the results of the exam? I really don't want to pay another 100 dollars to get the 1% needed to pass.

If i do have to take the test again can anyone link me to a sample example or questionnaire. It seems the book isn't a broad enough knowledge base for this exam.

foodpump · #2 09-25-2009, 10:24 AM

Ahhhhh, so you've experienced the "Red Schpeil" first hand, eh?

Pay the $100, and do it over. Don't bother complaining, it's just a Gov't board the gives tests like that to plumbers, electricians, and other trades. Probably your local Chef's ***'n that writes most of the questions. But the Gov't body insists on writing/designing the actual test, and as such has total control over all of the questions, albeit many of them stoopid.

Imagine, you've sweated 3 years for your apprenticeship, and the only test that counts one comprised of 200-odd multiple choice kweshtuns. Kinda like trying out for the Canucks or the Leafs, you show up with a hockey bag full of gear, and instead are asked to write a test.....

The Red Schpeil varies from Province to Province, in BC it's 8100 hours and you get a free re-write with your $100. Alberta is the ONLY province that actually requires some kind a practical cooking exam along with the written. Ontary-ario was made famous a while back by the two chicks from "Wendy's".

Thus, many employers are wary of the "Red Schpeil" as there are no standards within Canada. Most Chefs laugh when they see it on a resume, but many HR people and noobie employers get all white knuckled and heavy ragged breathing when they see it.

Most of the European Chef's are influenced by Pauli's "Classical cooking the modern way". In there you will find out how to skin an eel (make an incision around the heck, nail it's head up on a wall, and pull the skin off with pliars. No B.S. here either, check it yourself) Me, I'm a Saskatcahewan boy, never skinned an eel either.

Re-write the test, pay if you have to. Anyone who asks for this credential in the future should be viewed with contempt and suspicion, any one who laughs at it should be recognized as a professional who believes you should be tested on how well you can actually cook, move around in the kitchen, get along with employees, and organize.

Hope this helps

CJL_2006 · #3 09-25-2009, 12:19 PM

Thanks for the advice.

I know the Red Seal is not a good indicator of the quality cook or chef that you are.

I've just noticed a lot of places like retirement communities and prisons that REQUIRE it before they even look at you for a job.

It turns out that those jobs are the better paying jobs in the industry. Not that i want to pedal prison slop for the rest of my life but at this stage of my life where I'm saving for a car and house i really need to make some good coin. If this red seal helps me do that then all the power to it.

I've gotten in contact with my Chef professor from college and hopefully he has some advice for me.

ryan.brosseau1 · #4 09-25-2009, 01:58 PM

Hear Hear!!! Two cheers for foodpump!!!

As a fairly recent grad of good old st. clair college in ontario , I agree 100% with foodpump. The only red seal chef's i have yet to meet that were worth a **** were the instructors at school. The first red seal chef i worked under couldn't even fillet a fish or 8-cut a chicken properly. I've learned most of what i've learned through trial and error and what the non-red seal chefs have taught me.

This seems to be the same as all the other red seal professions. The guys with no credentials know everything the know-it-alls with the red seal know how to pass a test.

But yeah it sucks that the gov'mt jobs and hotels etc require it a lot of the time.

Advice that i gotten from friends and chefs about the test was to make sure you understand the concepts and how stuff works. The questions can then be answered using mostly common sense. And of course pick the answer closest to what the book says.

Bite the bullet and pay the $100 and do better next time.

Good luck.

leeniek · #5 09-25-2009, 04:09 PM

Well said foodpump and ryan!! I have met a couple of red seals who honestly didn't know their stuff at all and I've known more than them. It's funny.. I think the certification has went to their heads!

SeabeeCook · #6 09-25-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJL_2006

... Not that i want to pedal prison slop for the rest of my life but at this stage of my life where I'm saving for a car and house i really need to make some good coin ...

My experience is if you pettle "prison slop," the inmates will turn you into slop.

I don't know about Canada, but here in California, prison jobs offer chefs and cooks a good way to earn a very good wage and steady income, benefits, etc. It certainly helps you pay for a car and house, especialy with overtime.

From a retired prison food manager,

Steven

Mandarin25 · #7 10-02-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJL_2006

Alright so I recently finished my 6000 hours for my apprenticeship back in august and i booked my red seal exam straight away.

I took the test a few days ago and i failed by 1 mark.... 1% Personally i found the test very obscure and vague.

If i do have to take the test again can anyone link me to a sample example or questionnaire. It seems the book isn't a broad enough knowledge base for this exam.

I have failed twice both by 1% each time, and apparently switched a bunch of answers around cause the breakdown was different everywhere, I am writing it for the third time, and also would appreciate if someone knows where i can get a practice exam.

there was one sauce on the test that I had never heard of, and I looked up in my book couldnt find it... it wasnt a base sauce, or a small sauce off the base sauces, it was rediculous.

foodpump · #8 10-03-2009, 08:23 PM

Hang on a sec,...

Are you telling me that you didn't pass because you only got 99% instead of the required 100% of all questions correct?

BTW, what was the name of the sauce?

ChefRay · #9 10-03-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foodpump

In there you will find out how to skin an eel (make an incision around the heck, nail it's head up on a wall, and pull the skin off with pliars. No B.S. here either, check it yourself)

That's the proper way, if you're ever asked, to skin a catfish also.

Mandarin25 · #10 10-04-2009, 05:44 AM

you need 70% to pass, I got 69% both times, I cant remember the sauce to be honest, thats how obscure it is, although my old chef told me that there is a sauce to watch for on the test, I cant remember what he called it, but it involves crayfish shells, and I think that might be the one.

This could be an interesting rewrite, after I had my daughter I have had no memory left, I hate that this piece of paper matters so much to some when really, I could be really book smart, but have no concept of food, and experimentation, Where as I am the opposite, I wont remember everything that is in the "professional chef" book, but give me a few ingredients, tell me what scale you want the food at (homecooked, gourmet, or inbetween) and I can make a great dish, from deliscious to artistic.

foodpump · #11 10-04-2009, 11:29 PM

Sauce Nantua?

PeteMcCracken · #12 10-04-2009, 11:34 PM

So, you "missed" 31 out of 100 (62 out of 200)?

CJL_2006 · #13 10-05-2009, 09:36 AM

In Ontario you need 105/150 to pass or 70%. My score was 104/150 or 69%.

My chef professor from college is sending me a mock test. I'll send it to you if i can.

PeteMcCracken · #14 10-05-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJL_2006

In Ontario you need 105/150 to pass or 70%. My score was 104/150 or 69%.

My chef professor from college is sending me a mock test. I'll send it to you if i can.

So, if I understand correctly, you "missed" 36 answers, is that correct??

Not having seen a "Red Seal test", I presume it is multple choice with, say, four (4) choices? Knowing a little bit about creating such tests, two of the answers are obviously incorrect/wrong, one is a "distractor", i.e. might appear correct if one doesn't understand the subject, and one is correct. Common sense points to the fact that, if you had "guessed" at the 36 questions you missed, you would have gotten somewhere around 18 of them correct and you would have passed.

For example, if the sauce question WAS Sauce Nantua, which is a classic, Nantua sauce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , my guess is the possible answers had clues to which was correct.

My advice? Rely on your "knowledge" of the fundamentals to figure out the correct answer(s), don't try to "memorize" either the possible questions or the answers.

I'll venture that there are three groups of questions on the test:

Those that the answer is obvious to you
Those that you "think " you know but are not sure about, and
Those you do not have a clue about

Go through the test and answer the first group, those that are obvious.

Go back and start over with the second group, ignoring those that fall in the third group, and use your skills to eliminate the wrong answers and help you pick the right answers.

Now go back to the ones you have no clue about and see if you can "guess" based on your knowledge.

On average, youu probably "know" the answers to 75-85 of the questions, have a good "guess" at 50-60 questions, and don't have a clue about 15 questions, so, if you answer the ones you know and half of the ones you "think" you know correctly, you'll score 105 without any problem.

Good luck on the re-test!

Mandarin25 · #15 10-06-2009, 07:38 PM

I dont recall if it was nantua that was on the test, I do remember that one of the options for the multiple choice was pickles, but thats all I remember,

Like i said before, I am a great chef, I am just horrible at multiple choice questions because I second guess myself all the time, I think something is right, but under pressure I tend to lose sight of what I need, and pick something else.

Thank you for your advice on the test, I appreciate it, I still don't understand why 75% of the test isn't practical. I know lots of people that passed the test in my class, and I would stay away from the restaurants they cooked in because I know that they dont follow health and safety rules, or just that their food is horrible.

Good luck everyone who is writing the test... I may have to postpone my test date, working 6 days a week, taking care of a hurt/now sick husband, and my 1 year old daughter, I really havent had the time to look over my notes, and text... I will let you know if I passed though.