Working off the clock - Page 2

panini · #16 02-04-2002, 02:56 PM

Peachcreek,
I know the message you are trying to convey, but I think you are sugarcoating it just a little.no? You work hard, you have a lot of responsibilities, but you are in control right?

fodigger · #17 02-04-2002, 04:30 PM

I live ,work and pay taxes in CA. It would be hard to believe that management doesn't know what is happening. In CA they are very strict about overtime pay. We went from a 40 hr week o/t to a over 8 hrs o/t 2 years ago. It was a very big deal. We all get reports stating hrs worked verses dollars spent simple math would show them it doesn't add up. These guys need a serious adjustment in the way they do business. It is totally unfair that I need to follow the leter and spirit of the law while they flaunt it. As was the discussion a couple of months ago here things in the industry will never change if companies are allowed to treat their employees like this. What good is a chef how works 100 hrs per week min. anyway? We all need to recharge our bodies and minds. I wouldn't be surprised if this managers bonus wasn't some how tied to this. If I treated my employees like that I'D SUE ME!

cape chef · #18 02-04-2002, 05:00 PM

Right on Fodigger,

Peachcreek, I must congradulate you on your ability.
I wish I could work 20 or 30 hours a week and call my self a "Chef"Maybe in another life
cc

holydiver · #19 02-04-2002, 05:07 PM

Exactly all I hear in the industry mags is how they want the industry to be proffesional and all this lip service baloney. The fact of the matter is it will never truly change without us being considered professional's having a cetification. Any owner who says that they never knew about labor laws is an absolute scumbag liar it is quite well spelled out I have personally been owed thousands of dollars my self. The big thing is when you try to change things you are labeled a disgrultled employee not a team player etc. I don't understand you can't have it both ways either this is an art or a bussiess it can't really be both if it is an art then fine but you can't be working for the love of the game so to speak while the people who employ you are looking to fill their pockets the two just do not mix. Another thing is if the biz does not change someday there might not be a biz this is the 21st century not the 1800's some parts of the industry have changed but a huge amount still hasn't. People want all kinds of certification culinary schools etc. which I am all for but where does the money come from it is not free to go to school travel to Italy to study etc. how can you do that making 8-10 even 15 dollars an hour. I can go be a nurse and right out of school make 22-25 an hour to start that is a lot more than I make after almost 15 years in the biz that is not right. The industry wants the best and the brightest well I say treat people and pay people or else why bother.... sorry about my rambling guys I am just in a mood lol....

Peachcreek · #20 02-04-2002, 05:54 PM

I laugh. I got "blackballed" because of my lack of schooling years ago. I could'nt even ever get considered for a lot of the better jobs out there. So I had to take alternative routes. I guess in the end it saved me from a lot of grief! The moral of my story? I'd rather be a cook with a good business plan than a "great" chef!

chefboy2160 · #21 02-04-2002, 08:07 PM

Hey Peach , I can relate to both sides of the issue . But remember this Peach , not everybody has the backing or the knowledge to open and run there own restaurants . So many new food joints go belly up real quick and a lot of us have family obligations which require a good salary ( Good but Never Quite Enough ) as well as health benefits . Thats why some of us work for the man ( cheap 60s metaphor ) . But just cause we work for the man does not mean we should be exploited by the establishment . As a young chef I can remember being paid by the shift , ie : broiler $ 60 ,
saute $ 70 and so on . Of course in order to run your station properly you had to show up 1 to 2 hours before your scheduled shift and normaly stay at least 1 hour after shift . No clock just by the shift .
Now , with a family only 1/2 raised I find it easier to manage other peoples food outlets and to spend there money . You have to do a good job in order to keep it but then isnt that the way it should be . Of course thats just my opinion ...................

panini · #22 02-05-2002, 01:24 PM

holydiver,
I understand what you are saying completely. I agree with most of it. Its true that you can go and make more money as a nurse but you know one upside of this industry is that you can advance way up the ladder and make large money,without certification. That nurse will probably be a nurse all of her career. I'm not knocking anybodies choices but there is another side to the certification thing.

Peachcreek · #23 02-05-2002, 02:44 PM

Holydiver, Chefboy, I DO empathize with you. I don't agree with the way things run in mainstream foodservice. That is why I do what I do. It is not right for people to be abused because they are told it is the way to get ahead in the restaurant business. I do really well and have been HAPPY at my job for many, many years. You don't have to be an owner, you have to be aware. Take risks. KNOW YOUR OWN WORTH! In my youth I had no choice except to take risks. I didn't do everything right. I failed on several occasions, and made hugh mistakes. But sitting here now, after 27 years in the industry and thinking I can do this for another 20 years, the restaurant business has been very very good to me. I have cooked a lot of food, been to more parties that I can ever recall, made a lot of people very happy, given back to my community.
My associates at work MUST work on the clock, get paid overtime over 40 hours per week, have medical insurance, get paid vacation, and production incentives along with being tipped through tip pooling. Pretty good for a "Mom and Pop" restaurant. We also CLOSE for Presidents' Day, Memorial Day, July 4, Labor Day, Wed-Sun of Thanksgiving, Christmas and New years. I EXPECT people to have a life outside of work. Anyhow, I'm just ranting. I get SOOOO tired of hearing about the vast majority of peers of mine getting shafted on a regular basis. It only works if you buy into it all and are not willing to make equally tough choices to make it change. But some do make it. I did.

Positive self affirmation. When you get ready to go to work look into the mirror and say: "I'm a foodservice professional. I GET PAID TO DO THIS! I'M GOOD ENOUGH, SMART ENOUGH, AND BY GOLLY, PEOPLE LIKE MY FOOD"!
lol.

chefboy2160 · #24 02-05-2002, 07:46 PM

Peach , Love your no nonsense posts .Yes we are professionals
and people do like our food and heck , they pay us also . Culinary pros need to stand up and quit taking BS from the old school mentality . Quality of life is everything . Hey Peach I bet youve gotten a lot of resumes latley . Your operation sounds first rate and some day I hope to visit . Stay the course people and may the force be with you ..........

UniChef · #25 02-09-2002, 02:37 PM

I think it's kind of ironic that in some of the other posts we tell the students and those contemplating a career to go work in some upscale trendy place for free to get ahead or get a foot in the door.....

Nick.Shu · #26 02-11-2002, 07:17 AM

my view on this industry has a lot to do with with supposition that apprenticeships are a outmoded work concept.

vis a vis: - have a look with what apprenticeships have been associated in the past: i.e. "the wizards apprentice", etc. There is no real reason that someone should be bonded to an employer for an exclusive period of time (indentured apprenticeship), yet that opinion of employers is glaringly omissive that the apprentice has (as an individual) certain rights.

The problem with such system is that it overflows in to the mainsteam.

Given that, as a trainee/apprentice or whatever accepts a certain condition of employment as fact of life, it either manifests itself as: "well i may as well accept these conditions as a heirachy", or " god help the next apprentice that comes along" (completion of cycle).

So after training under this, would it not be human nature to become acceptive of these conditions (conditioning 'a la pavlovs dog) to a point inclusive of peer pressure.

i myself am guilty of this. But working off the clock to me is justified. My workplace is exceedingly supportive of my needs and i am actually friends with my employer. I also have a future plan education wise.

The bottom line is: look after your self, make the best effort you can, and if things dont work out, then alter your circumstances until they do.

chefboy2160 · #27 02-11-2002, 07:52 PM

Nick.Shu , hello . I have seen this practice of indentured servant applied to young Swiss chefs I have worked with . An older Swiss chef here in the US who is settled will advertise in his homeland for Apprentice chefs . Normaly there wages are barely enough to get by on and you know there work ethic means everything to them so they work like dogs . They are starting to learn though, but it is a history of practice and habit . We change our proffesion 1 kitchen at a time so keep it goin . Of course thats just my opinion ................

ness99 · #28 03-13-2002, 07:59 PM

I would also like to say that from time to time some chefs like to tell you that it is a learning experience they are providing to you, and that they don't have to pay you for a couple hours of work. This goes out to the Culinary Students out there. Never Never fall for this line of B***S**t. You are an employee and deserved to get paid for your time. Stand up for yourself.

kuan · #29 03-14-2002, 05:13 AM

I'd like to know the outcome of this.

Kuan

Michael Woods · #30 03-29-2002, 12:52 AM

I completely agree with holydiver's statement, especially about the high costs of school, and the wonderful "mickey mouse wages" paid in the industry. Also having worked at a "unnamed"hotel chain/ restaurant, I fell victim to the "wow!!" what a huge sum of money salary trap. I wouldn't wish the 100+ hour work weeks, or the one day off a year salary plan on anyone.
Sadly, out here in the middle of nowhere, I have met a lot of cooks, and chefs who have been worked very hard for a long amounts of years in other locations, getting severly burned out and used up, and in the end didn't have two dimes to rub together( a very likely reason they live here.) I think it's your personal responsiblity to yourself to get paid in exchange for your time. I hope that someday this industry will change, but the reality is we are in an occupation that is extremely over worked, understaffed, underpaid and there is a lot of shady dealing and b.s. about "paying dues",working employees off the clock, and people who see you as a labor cost percentage rather than a fellow human being or a hard worker. I can see where he's coming from though, because of his lack of opportunities and need to pay the bills. My advise is work as hard as possible to get out of the situation!! The longer you stay in it, the harder it will be to get out of....