the battle of the sexes!!!

[angeleeka]

Hello everybody!!
i am currently doing a project entitled-- Do Women and Kitchen go Hand in Hand. I am researching on why chefs are pre-dominantly male... what is barring female chefs from entering the food industry..etc. Thus, i would be delighted if anyone could give me their views on this topic!!
For chefs and restaurant owners, i hope you all could answer my following questions:

What is the male to female ratio of chefs in your bakeries?restaurants?
In your view, what do you think has led to this trend?

Do you have a preference for male chefs over female chefs?
(if yes)

Why?
eg. Are male chefs more capable and talented than female ones? Do they maybe look more professional?

What is lacking in a female chef?
(if not)
Why are there more male chefs compared to female chefs then?

Do you believe that it is harder for a female compared to a male to be a chef?
What do you consider first before employing a cook into your restaurant?
Eg. Gender? Experience?

Is there a difference in a) pay b) privileges c) working hours between a male and female cook?

Is the working environment in the kitchens of your restaurants 'women friendly'?

Do you think there is a need to balance the male to female cooks ratio in your restaurants? How do you think one can go about in achieving that?
Okie, thats about it!! rEAlly hope i would get some responses!!! Thank you!!

[culinarian247]

This looks like a school project. I will answer it though, just to keep my mind off of other things.

A1: There are no female chefs where I work.

A2: No preference. I am but a commis and appreciate the opportunity to work for anyone.

A3: No one sex has more capabilities and talent than the other. Rather the differences lie within each individual and their desire for the industry.

A4: I don't know. At one point in our history it was expected of women to stay in the kitchen (sorry ladies but it's true and I apologize for that). Now that money is involved, they were being hurried out and not let back in. I think it sucks HUGE ONES!! To answer this question in one word......G-R-E-E-D.

A5: It's changing but it is harder.

A6: If I were an owner, the first thing I'd consider is talent!

A7: In the individual, free-standing restaurants there might be (but it can't stay that way). Where I live it's practically impossible to do gender discrimination. That would cause too much chaos in my opinion. I don't see it. Everything around me is straight DOE.

A8: In the kitchen I work in there only user-friendly. A tilt kettle doesn't give a **** who is using it.

A9: Talent, no matter who has it, can not be ignored. Not for long. There is a need to balance the ratio of competent to non-competent personnel. In that aspect gender doesn't apply. I would like to see a working environment that is fun, friendly, intellectually stimulating and above all equal. For this to happen it's going to take the efforts of us all. We that are open-minded must convince those of us who aren't that gender only matters when deciding which bathroom to go in at work.


I hope that helps.

[W.DeBord]

I'll answer this. These are my opinions and experiences, which I know might offend others, sorry.

As a female and now a middle age female in the business there are many reasons female don't stay in the business. I've seen equal numbers of both sexes come out of culinary schools but once they get into the profession the females seem to drop out far more then the males.

I think the main reason is the hours. Many of us want families and want to particapate in "family interactions" and chef hours just don't let you. So since most of our spouses make more money then us, it becomes smarter for us to quit and raise our families and keep the home fires warm. Or we seek less demanding hours in other jobs.

Other reasons we leave can be the social structure of the kitchen. Often kitchens bring out very competitive and agressive behavior due to the stress of this job. Many females don't enjoy this pressure and shoulder bumping competition. It's still a male dominated profession and I personally have had a hard time getting males to follow my lead (as chef) with-out becoming a dictator (theres always someone challenging you behind your back). It's like a boys club and you get tired of standing outside the door, yet your uncomfortable being inside because that's not your nature either.

I switched to pastries, first because it interests me far more the the hot side. But other females enjoy it because the pace is less stressful (with timing/plating up).

Although I would like to add, my friends here have told me this is not the enviroment they've experienced in kitchens. I think the more gourmet, intelligent and the more modern educated chefs are NOW running kitchens where females can thrive. But as you get into more average restaurants with less savie chefs the more it is like I described above. Unforunately we all can work in the finest restaurants for various reasons besides tallent.

Over all, the sacrfices asked of chefs become too big of a price to pay and we choose a different life.

[angeleeka]

yup yup... your answers are of great help!! thanks!! by the way, are you also a chef? if you are, how long have you been in this occupation? Do you think your mentalityof thinking is that of the majority, or you are just representative of the minority.. like do your colleagues share the same view as you??..thanks a lot and i hope asking all these aren't violating your privacy...

[Suzanne]

Angeleeka, have you had a look at Ann Cooper's book, "A Woman's Place Is in the Kitchen": The Evolution of Women Chefs? You really should. In addition to lots of answers to some of your questions, it has an excellent bibliography that will lead you to more answers and sources of information. It sounds as though your project deserves REAL, serious research.

[Leo R.]

Angeleeka,i am a chef in London and the same problem exists here!Women,in general,are seen as inferior by some of their male counterparts.I find this line of thought to be absolutely unacceptable.
A recent survey found that women in Britain`s hospitality and tourism industry are paid 25% LESS than men!!!
What a load of sexist s*@t!
I`ve met lots of female chefs who are brilliant.I`ve also met male chefs who are useless!Good actors,lousy chefs.
You mentioned the point of female pastry chefs,this is an area where you either know what you are doing or you don`t.Pastry chefs are consumate professionals.They are artists as well as chefs.
Chauvinism is,unfortunately,alive and well.Don`t be put off by these pretentious and overbearing individuals.I can`t be bothered with them,their blinkered attitude has caused a skill shortage in Britain!They need to see a taxidermist as as soon as possible.Leo.

[W.DeBord]

This has been sort of a hot topic here in the past.

I was a head party chef/baker/partner of a catering business for roughly 9 years. Quit the whole business for another 10 years and then came back as a pastry chef for the past 4.

I can't unforunately tell you what other similar females I've worked with think about this topic because I've worked with vertually all males in the kitchen (except for my partner who was my Mother). My experinces over the last years as a pastry chef has been that I've been the only American and only female in the kitchen. So ethnic differences also played into the male female interactions.

I offered my perspective freely and willingly...no problem.

[Jeremy]

If this is an issue that interests you, you might like to read this related article... http://www.globalchefs.com/chef/curr...49womIntro.htm[/url]

[angeleeka]

thanks a lot everyone... your views and suggestions would be put to great use for my project!! and if there are pple out there who come across my questions posted earlier, pls do ans them... cause i need a whole spectrum of views on this topic...

[angeleeka]

Hello Culinarian 247! are u a chef too? u are right... anyway, i was wondering if you by any chance prefer to work with a male chef over a female chef when given a choice... Do you think that we are just making a big hoo-ha over this issue because after all some occupations are just more single-sex dominant like being a nurse.. Do you think women today are just demanding too much and not willing to work as hard as their counterparts in the kitchen? Do you think your previous views represent that of the majority of your collegeaues? thanks!!

[angeleeka]

hIE We.DeBord and Leo R!!
i understand you are a female chef right??
may i know what encouraged you to plundge into this occupation? were you aware of the "female prejudice' in the kitchen?
were your family supportive of your choice of occupation?
what obstacles did you face initially? How did you overcome them?
have you any regrets on your choice of occupation??
Gee.. great lot of questions... thankie!!!

[angeleeka]

thanks suzanne for recommending that book!! i am contemplating on getting it... but checking it out at the library first!really i hope i can find it there!!!

[Leo R.]

Angeleeka,i can assure you that i am definitely male.
I`ve been a chef for nearly twenty years and still get a huge buzz out of the industry.I do not have any preference with female/male chefs.As far as i am concerned,a persons biological composition does not ensure that they can cook!!
I`ve heard students in colleges make sexist remarks,i then get enormous pleasure from seeing them fail a practical assessment.
Total dedication,good communication skills,consideration for others and listening are vital.
You ask why i became a chef,well, i always wanted to learn to cook at school.I was told this was not available to boys,yes,it was a mixed school.There was a heck of a lot to learn when i first went to college,remembering everything is fun!I`m still learning new things,eating trends,new forms of food poisoning bacteria,hygiene legislation,etc.
There will always be something new,you don`t get time to get bored.If you do,you are working in the wrong place.Leo.

[panini]

angeleeka,
Just wondering what type of course this topic is for? Ya know most of us male chefs don't like to give you gals any ammo!
Just kidding'not a chef. I think you might want to take your report one step further and include the ethnic influence. As DeBord mentioned she was in a predominately Hispanic kitchen. I will be crucified by saying this but most latin men are very macho and don't have much respect for women unless they are in their home kitchen. Most older European male chefs still go by the old standards of 'you have to pay your dues and that the kitchen is for men'. I better stop before I get thrown off for good.
LeoR is not a female?? hum

[Suzanne]

Gotta come back into this, since my friend Panini said some things ... No Jeff, I'd never dream of nailing you to anything.

Right now I'm doing consulting, but I've worked in restaurants, managed a catering operation, and been the kitchen manager for a food manufacturer. In the time I worked in restaurants, I was garde manger, grillman (yes, that's what you call it), saute, and pastry chef. In some of those kitchens I was the only woman; in some, the only woman on that shift but there was a woman Sous Chef on the other shift; sometimes there were other women in various line and chef jobs -- including one place where the Executive Chef, both Sous Chefs, and the Pastry Chef were women, as well as about half of the prep cooks and half of the line. In other words, I've had pretty much all possible combinations of male and female in charge and as colleagues. I'm a native female New Yorker of the Jewish persuasion -- which some think of as an ethnic group unto itself -- and have worked with Hispanic males and females and several other ethnicities as well.

So what are my answers to your questions? From a tough broad's perspective:

Male to female ratio: explained above

cause of this trend?: what trend? I see no pattern there.

preference for male over female chefs?: Please, I'm a married lady, and my husband does not work in the business. (I promise, I won't go there, tempted though I may be; this is a good, clean forum!)

are men more capable and talented than women?: Some are, some are not.

do [men] look more professional?: Looks have nothing to do with any of this; PERFORMANCE, CREATIVITY, LEADERSHIP SKILLS, and MANAGEMENT SKILLS are all that matter.

what is lacking in a female chef?: Do you mean anatomically? I certainly won't mention that here; nor will I say what men lack, anatomically. Otherwise, men and women may both lack the same qualities, just as they may posess the same qualities necessary in the kitchen (see previous answer).

why are there more male chefs ... then?: Are there more males? Have you done a census? And how do you define "chef," by the way?

do I believe it's harder...: Yes, but the main reason is that too many women believe the crap about men being more suited, better, etc. So do too many men. It ain't necessarily so; gender has nothing to do with ability.

what do I look for when I'm hiring?: Neither gender nor experience; they don't matter. I look for passion for food, passion for learning, the ability to show up on time (in fact, that's THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!!!), basic math and reading abilities. I have not been in a position yet where I needed to hire better than entry level, but those are STILL what I'd look for (plus the ability to keep one's mouth shut).

differences in pay?: I sure as **** hope not, unless based on ability, experience, and skill level.

differences in privileges?: Excuse me, NO ONE has any privileges in a kitchen. What on earth are you thinking????

differences in working hours?: Prep and service times are when they need to be. Is there a difference in service hours for female and male customers?

"women friendly"?: The environment is friendly to people who do what they are expected to do, and who do it well. Otherwise, you are (rightfully) subjected to all sorts of harrassment. Come to think of it, that's true even if you DO produce (read Kitchen Confidential).

Okie dokie, I hope this helps you!!!

PS to Panini: I have found that if you exhibit the same dedication to doing your best that they feel, and show that you can do the job, the Hispanic guys have as much respect for a woman as for any male in the same job. In fact, sometimes I think they adapt better than the frat-boy white-bread CIA grads. No, not just sometimes; I THINK THAT'S TRUE.

Oops, gotta go make dinner for my hubby now!