Chocolate showpiece

[ryan lacourse]

hello, my name is ryan lacourse and i am attending the french culinary institute in nyc. i have a big project coming up for a chocolate showpiece and i have some questions. our theme is our fav movie so i chose "TOPGUN" i know what i want to do i would like to mold a f-14 tomcat and have a cut out of the topgun logo found on the dvd case and ihave a to have a hollywood star with tom cruise's name on it in the front. i wanted to have viper's plane on mav's 6 but i dunno if i could afford that i only get 3 days i belive to build this. and this is my question i have a recipe for a Gelatin mold

800 g gelatin powder
4935 ml h20
5170 g granulated sugar

this is enuff for a wine bottle. now should i use this or should i go out and buy some food safe silicone. pls help drafts due thrusday!!!

thanks ryan

[chefpeon]

And you can't ask your instructors these questions because??????

It's hard to answer your question because I'm not sure I understand it since I've never seen "Top Gun". Are you saying you want to mold 2 planes?
Do you have reason to believe using a gelatin mold with chocolate will not work? Are you wondering whether your gelatin recipe will be enough to mold 2 planes? Or one plane? Are you saying your plane's fuselages will be as big as a wine bottle?

If your gelatin mold recipe is big enough to mold a wine bottle, and your fuselage is as big as a wine bottle then you sort of have your answer. You'll need extra gelatin to mold the wings, right? And if you want to do 2 planes you'll need even more than that.

Personally, I've never used a gelatin mold, so I don't know if it's better or worse than silicone since I've only used silicone, so I don't know what to tell you in that regard. Maybe someone else here has a better idea than I do........

[aguynamedrobert]

Hello,
Well I can lend some advice....I myself have never heard of doign a Gelatin mold for chocolate. I just recommend that you decided what to use and do a practice run to see if it can work. Make sure that whatever you decide to do is simple enough to pull off in those three days...nothing worse then the three days being over and only having a half centerpiece...make it complicated enough to get a good score but simple enough to pull off....Just know your own strengths and weeknesses...and test whatever you are going to do first...even if that is just testing the molds....

Good luck with everything,
Robert
www.chocolateguild.com

[ryan lacourse]

i cant ask them because its a 3 day weekend and drafts are due on tuesday. and we start on thrusday. and for the plane's they are only 10 inch's long. and i am useign the gelatin mold because its a heck of a lot cheaper for me to buy then silicone and im only ganna use the mold once. i was thinking of molding just the fuselage, then the tail fins, and then the wings and glueing them on after the fact.

[panini]

Ryan,
I'm old, so I don't keep up with new things. Have you used the geletin before?
Many years ago we made many molds for tallow and chocolate out of geletin, but we always used an aspic type. And then, we were using 4 to 1 h2o. Almost like a superball. We never used sugar. I'm a little concerned about that.
pan

[aguynamedrobert]

Hum....I have never used a Gelatin mold at all and didn't even know about it till you guys mentioned it....what is the process to make it and what are the bennifits?

Robert
www.chocolateguild.com

[panini]

Robert,
Back in my day, tallow was very big. So we would head down to the local import shops and purchase any type figure that may go with different buffets.
You know, the cheapest stuff, no need for detail.
We then would use mostly powdered aspic/geletine and cut the H2O
Put the figure in a plastic bucket or something and pour. After it became solid like hard rubber, we removed it and cut up one side and down the other to remove the figure.
Am I over explaining? Put he mold back together and wrap with saran ties.
Pour the tallow. Remove from mold and detail. The mold could be used over and over. We also used these in the pastry shop. Smaller figures. for white chocolate and chocolate
I'm just assuming this is what Ryan is talking about.
pan
I guess the benefits were none. I don't think we had the technology available for silicone

[cakerookie]

Pan where would I get this powdered aspic/geletine ?

Rgds Rook

[chefpeon]

Originally Posted by cakerookie

Pan where would I get this powdered aspic/geletine ?

Wouldn't that be similar to the Knox brand you get in the stores now? Plain Knox has no sugar. Same with gelatin sheets.

I'm curious now. I've never used gelatin as a chocolate mold either. Sounds like something to play with.

[cakerookie]

I had the same idea Chef.

Rgds Rook

[felixe the dog]

Using a gelatin mold may be ok but you need to post a picture of the plane(s) you want to cast from; the reason being there may be issues with reproduction of detail and undercuts etc.

Gelatin molds are fine for basic items, but:

you may need to dissassemble the plane (cut into pieces) and then re-assemble if it has many bits and pieces. The reason I suggest this is because if you tear the mold due to the complexity of the original object then you destroy the mold. There is no "tolerance" in the gelatin so any tears just run like crazy.

Also get a gelatin mold knife from Tirani cutlery, this knife will allow you to pour a single mold and when cutting out the original it leaves behind "registration" marks which greatly assist with the re-assembly of the mold.

Also - allow your mold to sit for one day to allow the gelatin to reach its maximum strength.

And - you need to consider what you are going to use to anchor the object down while you cast, when in its liquid form, gelatin is excellent for making your object float to the surface!! Don't forget that it should be food safe.

And another thing - What release agent are you going to use.

And - don't forget that gelatin molds are water based, and must be kept cold! I mention this because, you need to chill your mold, you are then pouring in 33 - 50degrees Celcius chocolate (depending on wether it is couverture or compound) which means it needs to be cooled before it affects the mold, so back in the coolroom. This continued refrigeration means the chocolate will come into contact with moisture - AND MORE THAN LIKELY WILL BE AFFECTED - so you are probably, maybe but surely going to get some sugar bloom.
What does this mean, it means you should be prepared to finish the pieces by spraying or covering by an alternative means as a bloomed finish is ugly and unappealing.

I think this covers the finer points of gelatin molds.

Now Silicon,

You must use a food safe/ approved (by the FDA) addition cured titanium based silicon. Tin based condensation cured silicon is a big no, no!!

most points above about anchoring the piece, being aware of undercuts etc, and even the use of a mold knife, also apply to silicon molds.

Also, As the plane may create multiple cavities in your mold you need sprue holes to release the air or you will not get the chocolate into all the mold.

Are you still keen? Don't be put off by all this, just be prepared to trial and error the process!

Goodluck!

[felixe the dog]

BTW Pan, I never use sugar either, just water and whatever gelatin I have (gel powder or leaves) but usually if I can get it I use powder as it is significantly cheaper!

[aguynamedrobert]

What is the percentage Gelatin to Water?

Robert
www.chocolateguild.com

[felixe the dog]

Hi Robert,

Using bakers percentages:

100% Water
15% Gelatine

You don't have to heat all the water, you can heat 50% of the water, dissolve the gelatine and cool rapidly with 50% cold water/Ice.

Be aware that any little gaps in your vessel will allow the gelatine to run out all over the place, so use a tray with a lip.

To seal my vessels I use Kleen Klay.

Good luck,
Felixe.

[aguynamedrobert]

Perfect...well I am glad this thread came up because I have never heard of using Gelatin and water to make a mold...I am going to try that out soon...how firm does it end up being?

Ya learn something new everyday,
Robert
www.chocolateguild.com