Tempering chocolate at high altitude

[chefpeon]

I was asked this question and I'm not sure of the answer.

If water boils at a lower temperature at a high altitude, then do the target temperatures for tempering chocolate go down as well?

[felixe the dog]

Well water boils at 100 degrees celcius at o metres above sea level, which is very specific (not including other variables such as impurities in the solution).

But chocolate, well you can heat chocolate to around 45 degrees celcius to melt it (give or take 2-3 degrees celcius either way). When it comes to holding the tempered chocolate at a workable temperature, you can work with dark from around 30 - 35c (preferably 32/33c). Above or below and you get streaks, get any higher and you lose "temper" (probably yours and the chocolates')

So - while an increase in temperature may lead to slight differences, there would be enough variance in the working temperatures to allow for this.

Two other points -

1. 100 degrees celcius at sea level is still 100 degrees celcius at 100m above sea level. The temperature does not change, the material (example - water) reacts slightly differently. (Someone please jump in if I am wrong, it has been a while since my last chemistry class!)

2. Switzerland has lots of altitude (just watch the Sound of Music! ) and they don't have any problems and still managed to create milk chocolate!!

That's my 2c. Besides I would be more worried about humidity than altitude.

[aguynamedrobert]

I would not think altitude would effect it and here's why...

Water is not a factor because there is basically no water in chocolate(very very minimal amounts)....so that isn't effected

The temperature is low and does not require boiling...boiling is usually when those temperatures are changed...candymaking for example...you have to know the differences in temperature at different altitudes or you are in a world of trouble...

I do not see anything in chocolate that would make it so the temperature would change in the tempering process...the crystals in the chocolate, as far as I know, are not effected by altitude and that is what tempering is dealing with...

Robert
www.chocolateguild.com

[chefpeon]

Ok, so both you guys are saying that the temperatures I work with at sea level to temper chocolate wouldn't change if I were tempering at, say, 3000 feet.

I'm still kinda confused though.....if water boils at a lower temperature, wouldn't chocolate melt at a lower temperature? Or am I somehow comparing apples to oranges? I know there's little to zero water in chocolate....I just thought the principle of something heating faster at a high altitude would be true across the board....whether it be chocolate or water.

I know that getting all the crystals in the chocolate to set in the correct order is the whole purpose of tempering, and one would think that if the crystals melt and set at a specific temperature that would not change. Perhaps I'll understand it better if I go back and review exactly WHY it is that water boils at a lower temperature at high altitude....I know it has to do with air pressure.......

[felixe the dog]

Originally Posted by chefpeon

Ok, so both you guys are saying that the temperatures I work with at sea level to temper chocolate wouldn't change if I were tempering at, say, 3000 feet.

What I am saying is that chocolate does not melt at a specific temperature, but within a range ( between 40 - 50 degrees celcius with 45 degrees celcius being optimum), therefore even if you have to take the increased altitude into consideration with creating a variation in temperature; you should still be within a workable range.

Originally Posted by chefpeon

I'm still kinda confused though.....if water boils at a lower temperature, wouldn't chocolate melt at a lower temperature? Or am I somehow comparing apples to oranges? I know there's little to zero water in chocolate....I just thought the principle of something heating faster at a high altitude would be true across the board....whether it be chocolate or water.

You are comparing apples to oranges.
What you may need to be aware of is if you are using a tempering machine which has a water jacket, such as the roband model; you may experience a slight increase in water temperature, but then again those thermostats are never accurate!
However, you also need to remember that at a higher altitude it is colder and therefore the surface temperature of the tempered chocolate will be cooler and this will affect the overall temperature of you container of tempered chocolate (similar to working infront of an airconditioner vent) easily compensated for but something to remember.
The good news is that you can work faster!!

Originally Posted by chefpeon

I know that getting all the crystals in the chocolate to set in the correct order is the whole purpose of tempering, and one would think that if the crystals melt and set at a specific temperature that would not change. Perhaps I'll understand it better if I go back and review exactly WHY it is that water boils at a lower temperature at high altitude....I know it has to do with air pressure.......

As always you test the chocolate on paper before using it to give yourself peace of mind.

BTW, just how high are you going above sea level???

Please note that for all temperatures I have given I am basing my discussion on dark couverture chocolate.

[chefpeon]

Ok, thanks felixe.....I get it now.
My logic was like:
If water boils faster,
therefore
everything happens faster,
therefore
I must work faster,
or
I will get fired faster.......

BTW, just how high are you going above sea level???

Well the whole "climbing Everest" thing is so passe. It needed a new twist so I figured I could be the first PC on Everest to temper chocolate. Michael Howe, a pastry chef friend of mine, has already made two attempts at Everest.........hey Michael, if you're out there.....have you done it yet?

Seriously, I had someone in Costa Rica pepper me with questions about it. They're at 3000 feet, so I guess they don't need to worry. Thanks so much for your knowledge and help!!!!!

[Erik]

chefpeon,

I know I'm coming late into the discussion - but if I remember correctly, water boils at a different temperature in higher elevations not because the water changed - but because the atmospheric pressure the water has to overcome to become a gas changed.
Chocolate, on the other hand, is not trying to become a gas and expand to many times its original volume.

Does that give you extra ammunition for your Costa Rican friend?

[cakerookie]

Originally Posted by Erik

chefpeon,

I know I'm coming late into the discussion - but if I remember correctly, water boils at a different temperature in higher elevations not because the water changed - but because the atmospheric pressure the water has to overcome to become a gas changed.
Chocolate, on the other hand, is not trying to become a gas and expand to many times its original volume.

Does that give you extra ammunition for your Costa Rican friend?

I agree with Erik. No water then there is no pressure change to overcome. That finicky ingredient chocolate has no water so there nothing to overcome. Where as in a boiled sugar recipe you would have to consider altitude changes as a factor in your boiling processes. Not saying everyone else is not right in their assumptions on the subject. Felixe made some good points as well as Robert. I am late to Erik but figured what the heck.

Rgds Rook 07

[chefpeon]

Yep, I think I understand now! Thanks a lot everybody. I tend to overthink things and I can confuse myself quite easily.....

I'm glad I'm at sea level.....