white-white wedding cake

[roon]

Here's another thought for the white-white icing. Now bear in mind I haven't tried this yet, so I don't know how it would work (however, I'm going to experiment).

Instead of shortening or lard try coconut oil. It's high in saturated fat (90% or so) which keeps it liquid at tropical temperatures, but in a temperate clime, it is supposed to be about the consistency of butter.

I don't know about taste, but I don't imagine it would taste like coconut. And it would be good for vegetarians without being icky shortening. Some people might object to the saturated fat content, but coconut oil is high in lauric acid (good for you) and I believe it's healthier than the hydrogenated shortening stuff.

But like I said, I haven't actually tried this (yet) so take it all with a grain (or several) of salt. I will post back when I've tried it (within the next month or so- I'm going to make a cake for my mother's birthday in Feb).

[angrychef]

Wendy, for a side by side comparison with xxx buttercream icing and Italian meringue buttercream here is the differences I've found:
1. Italian b/c. is not as stable in hot weather unless you replace about 30-40% of butter with Sweetex. It is possible to make an all-white Italian b/c., just use all Sweetex. It is refered to as decorator's buttercream because it is so easy to pipe flowers with. It still is all shortening so it tastes gross.

2. When icing smooth the sides of the cake, the Italian meringue b/c. is lighter and easier to smooth and pipe. The spatula glides and leaves less off a mark, whereas the xxxb/c. is stiffer/heavier and the spatula doesn't glide as lightly. The spatula "drags" because of all that xxx sugar, so I ususally try and thin the buttercream with more milk/liquid.

3. When I ice a wedding cake with Italian b/c., sometimes the outside icing will develop tiny hairline cracks, even if the board supporting the cake is very sturdy. I've been told I should add a bit of corn syrup or glucose to my Italian b/c. to make it a little more "flexible". This has never happen with xxx b/c.

For my cake fillings I like to use a French b/c. made with whole eggs. For icing the cake I use xxx b/c with 50/50 butter and Sweetex, and I add some lemon and vanilla extract.

[W.DeBord]

You agree about needing shortening to 'stablize' all butter cream frosting in hot weather, Dana.

And are you saying in your last sentence that you also combine two frostings (xxxb/c & your IMBC cut 50/50 with shortening), if so that's very close to what I do except I use a white chocolate butter cream not IMBC. SOOOOOO the final result is about 25% butter? Or are you using butter in you xxx b/c, which ups your butter percent?

I agree that IMBC is very light, but I find it has too much air when I decorate...the meringue just doesn't feel right for me. Although it's fine on tortes where less decorating/handle is needed.

I need some technical interpetation, please? I looked back over my recipes and noticed I was making mostly Marcel D.'s butter cream frostings.

His method is uncooked whites whipped with sugar, then butter or any flavorings. Can you call that an Italian meringue? Since it's whites, not yolks? SOOOOO I desided I best not go the raw egg route on my insurance and I heated my whites and sugar over a water bath until HOT(no problems of course). So again, now is that Italian butter cream, or must you have a classic sugar syrup to label it Italian?

Also, I'm very fond of several butter creams I've made from Herme' that start with a pastry cream/anglaise base. What is the correct term for those? German? I prefer to use those as my fillings when I have a cake with flavored butter creams.

oh, P.S. For the first time I added corn syrup to my xxx b/c and liked the results enought to change my base xxx recipe.

[momoreg]

To prevent your IMBC from being too airy, you can cook it to a slightly higher temperature. Also, let it sit out for a day before using it, to give it a chance to settle.

The heated sugar and whites over a water bath is a Swiss meringue, and yes, the other one you describe is German.

If I feel that my buttercream might melt from the heat of the outdoors, I'd rather keep the cake cool as long as possible before sending it out, and maybe (as an option, during the consult)suggest that it doesn't sit out for the entire party, OR I use a dummy, and keep a backup cold (yes, that alternative is more costly to the client). I would rather avoid melting buttercream that way, than give them a not very good tasting icing. For whatever it's worth.

[angrychef]

My IMBC recipe is quite similar to momoreg's but it doesn't have corn syrup. I will try her recipe soon.I boil the sugar to 250F. Italian meringue is syrup added to eggwhites, Common meringue is straight granulated sugar added to whipped whites, and Swiss meringue is juat what momoreg said.
For cake fillings, a buttercream made with yolks or whole eggs is my preference(syrup added to the eggs---called French buttercream) because it provides added richness, flavor and body when using chocolate or caramel. For fruit flavored buttercreams I usually use IMBC because the fruit flavor shows up cleaner and sharper.
No Wendy I don't combine the two types of buttercream like you described, it just seems like a lot of work. For wedding cake work I've been using xxxBC(Wilton's style) made with 50% shortening and 50% butter. After all the stability and heat problems I've encountered living in Los Angeles, it seems like my safest bet. I've been using a lot more fondant than buttercream, however.

[W.DeBord]

Talking about fondant.....I ran into something yesterday that I was really amazed about. I made a rolled butter cream frosting (from Marsha Windbeckler) for the first time. It's very close to fondant but it's moister, less dense and much better in flavor.

I only had a dummy cake to try it over, but it can be patched easily if you get a tear. It would be tricky to handle with a large cake. BUT mixed 50/50 with purchased rolled fondant and you have a much better product then either alone!!

I also did buy the chocopan fondants, dark chocolate and white chocolate. So far I just don't care for it.....perhaps it will grow on me in time. I forget, are you using this Anna? The taste is fake, not even close to real chocolate (even though the ingredient lists it) and it's not that easy to handle. I'm going to make Rose's chocolate rolled fondant today, to compare.

Then (lots of experiments) I made the chocolate plastic from elegant cheese cakes (the pretty cakes I posted their site earilier). NOW that's worth taking notice! I had previously made the chocolate clay I'd heard so much about. It uses those candy melts. That's o.k.. But make it with real chocolate and you have perfection! Besides you can buy real chocolate for less money then the candy melts.

I'm really having fun experimenting. I've wanted to try these recipes for a long time and never had the time. So far they REALLY have been worth the effort.

[roon]

Talking about fondant got me curious. In watching my friend's mother roll out fondant and spread it over her cake (which was interesting, and looked very difficult, esp. over the lower tier of the cake which was a very large square) I was quite impressed. I've heard of poured fondant and seen it in boxes (I guess you mix it up and pour it over the cake). Which is better? I've never actually heard of anyone using the poured stuff, but I guess someone must, because they still sell it.

What is the Marsha Windbeckler frosting you mentioned? Is it a specific recipe? If so, where can I get it?

I'm just an amateur decorator (amateur in the extreme) but I enjoy it and I like to learn new things.

And no, I do not sell my cakes. I make them for my enjoyment, and my family's. I have enough respect for the difficulty, time, and effort involved in making these cakes that I wouldn't dream of taking business away from someone legitimate. Besides, with school, kids, a husband, a dog, and my garden, I don't have time!

[momoreg]

The poured fondant is generally what you see on petit fours glace. It has a satiny sheen, and is never really dry to the touch the way rolled fondant is.

I've never used the rolled buttercream, but I've always been curious about it. Maybe I'll order some to play around with.

[roon]

Ah! Thank you very much.

[W.DeBord]

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner Roon. The rolled butter cream is really pretty neat! Have you ever eaten rolled fondant? It's pretty similar but I've never made rolled fondant (yet) so this new rolled butter cream is interesting because it taste so much better then bought fondant. But the rolled buttercream is sort of delicate so you can mix it with fondant and use that on your cakes. It's gives cakes a perfect finish (kind of hard for me to explain).

I don't have the recipe in front of me but I'll post it later if you like. Basicly it's like the shortening style butter cream with corn syrup and more xxxsugar to make it stiff enough to roll.

I wonder if you'll like it Momoreg. I think you will when you add it to fondant (it's cool). But it is very much like the xxx frosting you don't care for taste wise....

hey I made Rose levy's rolled chocolate fondant....pretty cool.

[panini]

just wondering with the added sugar, if it will quicken the melt or sweat in the cooler?

[marzipan]

Can I add a vote for "yuck" on lard in icing?

I know some people claim they cannot taste a difference between lard and shortening, but trust me, some of us can. IMHO, it tastes meaty and almost kind of rancid.

Others cannot eat lard b/c of dietary, religious/spiritual reasons.

Others cannot eat lard for medical reasons- I have an uncle who cannot ingest lard- it makes him very very ill.

Frankly, I'm horrified by the fact that someone might use lard in icing. I won't even cook with it.

[W.DeBord]

Good point Panini, I didn't think about that. But I think mixed with reg. rolling fondant it will be fine. Check out the recipe I'll post it, there's alot of shortening to hold the sugar.

1 c. shortening (veg.)
1 c. light corn syrup
1/2 tsp. salt
1 tsp. vanilla
1/2 tsp. almond (or what ever flavoring you'd like)
2 lbs. xxx sugar

Maybe I discribed it wrong it's more shortening then normal actually???? I have to think on that.

But you can shape items with this too which might have some good applications....

Do you ever mix your rolled fondant with sugar paste? I'm going to try that, it was recommended on a cake decorating site.