looking for an opinion or three

[AprilB]

Same melting issues...same injury issues (just ask my cousin)...

But no...not either or...I propose both at the same time. There are a lot of Adult Education Art classes that are held at local High Schools or Colleges.

JUST COOK FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!

jeez

April

[momoreg]

Hey all, let me reiterate that I was an art major. I'm nor knocking art classes at all, but just want to put it in a separate place here.

When I went to art school, I had already been working 6 years with pastry, and it did help teach me how to look at things. I just don't see it as a place to start.

I would love to know where everyone else here got their start.

[panini]

robinchev,
unfortunately we have derailed a little. I think that you will find that most pastry chefs, experienced with all the mediums for show in pastry will tell you to take a pastry class. This might take a little research on your part to find something suitable. It may not be out there. Take everyones suggestions and use them to give you some insight on your next move. Visiting a pastry chef might not be a bad idea. We have a person that joins us every other Sun. to do some sugar work. Like Rat,pump and Cr. This is something that you might waste a lot of time on trying to learn out of a book. I think that the medium can be learned from a book and worked on at home. You can certainly get a leg up if you start boiling or melting at home. There are some great starter books out there. I'm not talking about the books with wonderful brilliant pieces on the cover. Start with the trouble shooting books that are more like referance.
Good luck
pan
edit. Sorry momo, I flipped from the hot side because I felt capped. I did not feel like I could put something out, from my heart. I can do that on the sweet side.I guess the passionate, romantic,side, guided me towards pastries. I have to love something to put thought and energy into it.

[momoreg]

Such a sweetie!

[MoreInk]

Reading all these responses to the original question "how to expand on my knowledge of pastry arts" makes me really appreciate those who took the time so many years ago to answer my questions about chocolate and pastillage, show me how to temper chocolate by marble, microwave or by the bowl, make real sheets of strudel dough, let me come in early and "practice" with sugar or piping, share recipes and books that were all in a different language so I had to go and get a foreign language dictionary to brush up on my high school french, and doesn't mind a "rookie" following them around taking all kinds of notes and taking pictures with a very cheap camera.

Being young and inexperienced gives one the freedom to make all sorts of mistakes, but having the drive and enthusiasm to not complain about very long hours for not a lot of dough (sorry the pun) and doing mundane things gives those who "teach," like a pastry chef, the desire to show another one's trade. I believe mentoring gives the opportunity to learn a great number of things that a book or a class will not, and to teach a specialized technique. I guess you just have to be at the right place at the right time. Any time someone else wants to learn something I might be doing (or have done) I am more than glad to share my techniques/info/recipes etc because so many have given me my starting knowledge. My culinary school only taught so much about pastry.

Sorry if this is just a rant and rave.......
As for books I love the series by Roland Bilheux, Alain Escoffier, Alain Couet, etc "The French Professional Pastry Series." Old school stuff, but all the basics are covered there.

[greenie]

How would art not help with pastry and chocolate? You need an artists eye if you want anything to pop out in 3d, you must first learn how to master drawing it first. I am in agreeance with the art man. Try a few classes, you might learn something new -respectfull, I mean.

[panini]

greenie,
Thread got derailed a little. Robinchev is already experienced in pastries. She wanted to take a class in choco. She has limited extra time. Someone threw out the art class. Noone here was against it. Most of the post were guiding her to the chocolate class. It then somehow got to art over choco. So most of the pastry people were suggesting the choco over art. That's all.
pan

[Botanique]

MoreInk -- Heartfelt kudos

[AprilB]

Art is what I know to be true. I have been involved with food my whole life. I have also been involved with art my whole life. I recently discovered that you can combine the two. It has mutated a lot since I was young. I grew up with just "good food". Nothing fancy, nothing pretty. Just all good.

Since then the trend to make food artistically pleasing in some artistically abstract way has changed all of that.

Now food not only has to taste good but it has to be presented in some visually pleasing venue. (AKA: ARTISTIC FORM) Piles of strangely prounounced vegitation with equally strange combinations and dribbles of syrups, gravies or 'reductions' on God knows...

I believe the original question was how, under limited time and resources, to learn pastries and 'candy making'. I grew up fixated with watching candy makers at Knotts Berry Farm, my mom's best friend worked for See's candies, my grandmother and I would hand pull taffy and make fudge on almost a daily basis. Then there were the glass blowers (also at Knott's) which strongly mimics the skills needed to do sugar arts now (which is something that I have NO idea when it became popular, but it certainly wasn't when I was young)

So...is it art? Is it food? The point I was trying to make is that a food medium at this day and age is just that...a medium. It's treated as an ART medium. It is now something that now not only has to taste good but look good. Has anyone looked at 1950's or 60's cookbooks recently? I grew up with them. I have grown up with all kinds of 'mediums', clay, chocolate, soap, wax, frostings...some of them edible, some of them not.

That's the point I was trying to make because if you are going to excell I sincerely believe you have to have an artistic and sensual edge. You use your senses and imagination to create beautiful food...at least four of them. You need to be able to envision your culinary creation and turn it into reality. You touch, smell, taste, and see.

If you aren't inherently artistic then take a class.

That's the point and I don't believe it's off track.

April

[panini]

April,
After rereading my post, I realized it was not said correctly,I appologise and
sorry that you were offended. I think it's perfectly clear that you would take an art course over the night course she was considering. I also think there are opposing views and opinions. That's good, that's why ChefTalk is GREAT!

[AprilB]

Just want to find a way to emphasize what I have learned in my first 50 years.

April
Heated debate gets your mind working don't it?

[panini]

Your way too young to be getting in heated debates.
Now, I pose another thought. I've had a few yrs. at this. As I look and think back, I'm not so sure that I can think of anyone who has stayed or grown in this part of the field that didn't have natural artistic talent. I have had a few great production workers and bench people but when it came to natural talent, they were the ones who could take the oven apart and put it back together. Humm.. I wonder?

[robinchev]

No... don't stop... derailment and all, I found the thread to be very instructive. Thanks for the time you put into it...it's been sitting idle for me for a while due to life getting in the way..
Sometimes you get more out of just following the conversation than a straight answer would provide.
Not to heat things up any further, but... if...you were going to start with a night course (the local college has several) would you try sugar or chocolate first?
I think I'm going to look for a book as suggested, (any ideas where? I live in Edmonton) and shoot for the next round of classes. There I should be able to barter/beg/borrow some time with someone who has some experience...kinda covering all the bases.
First thing I'm gonna do is hit the link mentioned, and scorch myself once or twice this weekend trying the DYI method. I'll let you know how the disaster unfolds, and you can tell me what I did wrong when you're finished pointing and laughing...

[AprilB]

Of course I'm not looking at major cities.

But I'm guessing that there are far more opportunities to find a willing chocolatier to teach you than a good class on sugar art.

I personally find chocolate easier to handle and use (albeit messier in the long run) so I tend to gravitate towards things I'm not as familiar with.

I keep thinking about my grandma and pulling taffy in our kitchen. Yeah, it was REALLY FREAKING HOT...but it was really fun playing with it. Sort of like playing with The Blob at 180 degrees!

I personally like the idea of blown sugar. I'm certain you can form it into little sculptures like you find in glass blowing shops. You know: the little horses and boats? I just don't have the time or equipment to try it. I think it would be pretty kewl on a cake or as decorations.

Little sugar ice sculptures.

April

[AprilB]

did I mention that I can fix ovens?...LOL